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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

CM Club: Ofsted may raise Fees

36 replies

nannynick · 19/03/2006 19:57

DfES have a Consultation in progress regarding changes to the Annual Fees charged to childcare providers.
\link{http://www.dfes.gov.uk/consultations/conDetails.cfm?consultationId=1383\Consultation Documents}
Currently fees are heavily subsidised at approximately 96.5%
One option is to increase fees in a substantial movement towards full cost recovery. Good news though, this isn't the preferred option at the moment. The preferred option is for a 30% rise.
Get your views known, by responding to the consultation, either directly, or on mass via support groups such as NCMA.
What do you think? Should fees rise? Should they represent closer to the actual cost involved, or should Government heavily subsidise childminders?

OP posts:
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goosey · 19/03/2006 20:12

I would be happy to pay the full unsubsidised amount.
It's all tax-deductable.

Isyhan · 19/03/2006 20:29

Please see my comment on other thread for my view on this.

nzshar · 19/03/2006 20:30

nope ...dont have a problem with paying for the full amount here either.

I do think that this is a particular issue gets to you nannynick. You have commented on several threads that you feel that it is unfair that childminders are heavily subsidised and nanny's have to pay almost £100.

While i do feel that the amount paid by childminders (£14) and the amount paid by nanny's (£96) is not as fair as it should be I also do take issue with a few things. Childminders are Ofsted inspected and have to cover all national standards for childminding, while it is good practice for a nanny to do the same they can go outside these as and when they and their employer wishes without ofsted questioning them. Childminders have their homes inspected and have to cover all safety and area per ratio of child issues etc. This is not the case in either a nannys/employers home. Childminders have to pass what is known as a suitable persons interview with ofsted and we have to ensure an inspector that we are capable people, this is not again the case for a nanny. A nanny that wishes to be on the Childcare Approval Scheme does have to be CRB checked, as does childminders. They have to do at least an induction course and hold a first aid certificate which a childminder also has to do.

Please dont get me wrong I am not saying that one is better than the other just there are differences, and there can be sometimes more to it all than meets the eye at first.

Katymac · 19/03/2006 20:38

I think a more realistic fee might change the impression of childminding.

Currently anyone (within reason) can register as a childminder often purely so they can earn money whilst staying at home with their own children (not a problem). However it can be seen as an easy option and some childminders charge unrealistic rates as they don't really need to earn money.

A more realistic fee (£250 pa)would make people think twice about registering and help them treat it more like a business & profession, and less like a hobby.

RTKangaMummy · 19/03/2006 20:41

But if are a childminder and only work part time and so don't pay tax

Would have to pay the full £100

or if don't have any mindees atm like me who is on holiday from minding it doesn't seem fair does it???

RTKangaMummy · 19/03/2006 20:44

So why should I pay £250 while I don't have any mindees

Mindee mum is extending her maternity leave again

I am happy about this so can concentrate on DS and his secondary transfer

BUT I do take it seriously as a career

Katymac · 19/03/2006 20:45

My husband pays his Dance Teacher fees even when not working - it's a price of being a professional so does my dad and he is a structual engineer who hasn't worked at that job for the last 20 years

RTKangaMummy · 19/03/2006 20:47

Yes but it will be unfair if those who are working can claim it back from tax man and I can't

Won't it?

nannynick · 19/03/2006 20:47

You are quite right, it is my current bugbear as it were. And yes, I agree that there are differences between the type of childcare provider.
However, what we don't have at the moment is a level playing field. I, like all childcare providers, want to see standards improve. I also want to see there being more choice for parents, so that parents can decide on what form of childcare best suits them and their children.
Some families will choose a nursery, others a childminder, other a nanny, others may choose a combination of several different types of care. Until recently nannies have been seen as the underclass, they have been ignored. In 2008, it looks as though nannies will fall under Ofsted, like other providers, though inspection still won't happen. As a nanny I would like my employers home to meet childminding requirements, alas I can't make that happen, as the parents won't spend the money. However, I am quite happy to be inspected on criteria that is not beyond my control, such as the educational side.

As others have said here already, the cost of registration is tax deductable, as childminders are self-employed. Nannies aren't... so it can't be deducted against tax.

"Childminders have to pass what is known as a suitable persons interview with ofsted and we have to ensure an inspector that we are capable people, this is not again the case for a nanny."

But why isn't this case for a nanny? Surely it should be the case, as child protection is a key part of the childcare strategy. As a Nursey Nurse, I already exist on Ofsted computer system, so like you have been though the same checks.

As I said earlier, all I want is more level playing field. If that means that Nannies get inspections, so be it - though as you have already pointed out, some parts of the National Standards (such as Physical Environment) may be tricky to abide by, as a nanny is still an employee and thus does not have full control over their working environment.

OP posts:
RTKangaMummy · 19/03/2006 20:48

I pay all the insurance and fees etc to keep me registered

but £250 seems rather alot if can't be claimed back from taxman

cos those who claim it back won't be paying it really will they if they are cliaiming it back

goosey · 19/03/2006 20:49

Kanga - the full fee would cover the cost of the registration and inspection process. The cost of this process is the same for all minders, whether they work part or full time or are off sick for extended periods.

Katymac · 19/03/2006 20:50

RTKM no more or less unfair than for any other professional (like my dad)

goosey · 19/03/2006 20:52

Is it not possible to be a self-employed nanny?

RTKangaMummy · 19/03/2006 20:53

So really the ones who have lots of mindees will be ok but those who don't won't

I agree to paying fees but £250 just seems too much especially if NOT claimed back from taxman

RTKangaMummy · 19/03/2006 20:54

so if you claim it back from taxman

Does he repay the whole £250?

nannynick · 19/03/2006 20:55

Quite agree Katymac, childminding is a business like any other. For those just starting out, a business start-up loan could be used to pay the initial fee. In areas in which the Government want to see an increase in a particular type of care, grants could be made available at a local authority level.

For part-time providers, I wonder if it could be sub split so a percentage is paid based on the number of days a week care is usually provider. Mind you, that could be complex to administer.

Also what happens when people do take a break - perhaps registrations could be frozen for periods of time, so rather than be de-registered, you freeze the registration and then unfreeze when you are caring for children again.

Oh you are all raising very good points, do keep them coming.

OP posts:
goosey · 19/03/2006 20:59

I work another job PAYE so pay tax on every penny earned as a minder.
The fee would be classed as an expense so would reduce the overall yearly profit of the business. Tax is paid - to the tax men and women! - on the profit. You don't get any money back as such.

Katymac · 19/03/2006 21:00

RTKM - you are running a business you know how expenses/profit&loss/tax are administered

nannynick · 19/03/2006 21:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RTKangaMummy · 19/03/2006 21:01

I have been childminding for many years without a break

And so this is the 1st break I have had cos of the mindee mum taking extended maternity leave

And so not under my control but OK I could have agreed to take on all the babies that I kept being asked to do, during the year

but I wanted to concentrate on DS during this very important year for him

Katymac · 19/03/2006 21:04

RTKM - so effectively you are taking a career break, by choice(abeit not all your choice)

nzshar · 19/03/2006 21:05

Though i want childminding to be taken more professionally i think £250 is a little excessive.

nannynick i totally see where you are coming from and yes i was a nanny for a while and dispaired at the lack of respect and backup available to that side of the childcare profession. I feel it can be a little harder for nannys sometimes because they are fighting it on two fronts, first with all out "there" and then their own employers to a certain extent.

Arrrggghhhhh why the hell did we all choose to be in one of the most undervalued, underpayed and least respected careers. Just as well we all love working with children huh :o

nannynick · 19/03/2006 21:06

Lets try not to make things too personal, as everyones situation is going to be different, for one reason or another.

What is clear so far I feel is that most of you feel that Government should not subsidise fees so heavily, as long as you are able to put those fee charges through your books as a business expense. Is my understanding right?

OP posts:
goosey · 19/03/2006 21:08

Thanks nannynick.
That's a lot clearer.
I am completely in agreement that nannies should be registered and included in all free and subsidised training initiatives.
Their role has many specifics not shared with either home based or nursery care but I'm sure those could be incorporated, and 'celebrated' for their worth to the families they work for and the children they care for.

Isyhan · 19/03/2006 21:09

I think if cmders or nanies want to see themselves as professionals then they need to come into line with what other professionals have to do. When you compare the cost of NMCA against other 'bodies' then its a good deal. I pay £15 a month to RCN and havent been near a patient for 4 years clinically until last week but Im happy to pay it.

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