Live-in nanny and food questions

[HolyLentenPromiseBatman]

1. Is all food usually provided for a live-in nanny? By all I mean breakfast, lunch and dinner 7 days a week?

1. If a family wanted the nanny to buy her own food (other than lunch on the days she works = 4 meals a week) how much extra would you advise them to pay him/her to cover this cost?

The job would be based in London if that makes any difference.

I have never heard of a live-in that does not have all meals eaten at home provided because

1. Breakfast and dinner (and often lunch) are prepared for and eaten with the children during the week

1. Paying the nanny £x per week plus 13.8% NI from which the nanny pays 12% NI and 20% tax so that she can buy food works out a lot more expensive than just providing the food

Sorry, missed out 3. at weekends either they join in family meals or they eat out.

I also missed that the nanny has her own kitchen - I would not expect the employer to provide food for this, on the other hand I would expect the nanny to be able to eat with the family most of the time otherwise the arrangement is more 'live out with accomodation provided' than live in.

holylenton.... no.... i got used to eating my dinner at 4.45pm.... it suited me i did always have a small-ish portion and have another snack a bit later at home. (soup / cereal / toast or similar).

I live out but I would eat with the children if I were staying over,mealtimes are a social event and it is good to eat with the children if I am staying ,or to just sit with them whilst they are eating and chat.I agree with Nannyl, I also will often make an extra large pie,lasagne,or curry etc so that the parents can have some.
When I lived in I ate all meals with the children,they would be eating what I was eating .which would be a proper meal.The children I look after now actually have fish fingers ,pizza and chips etc with their parents at the weekend . I was able to help myself from the cupboards when I lived in ,but would buy anything I fancied for myself.Generally I would be out of the house at the weekend.

That's a good point about NI/tax MrAnchovy, maybe they'd be better off just putting a bit extra in the kitty and telling the nanny to get her shopping from that? How much would be fair?

I agree that it is a 'live out, but with accommodation provided' arrangement. Should they advertise it as that though? Or as 'live-in with self-contained accommodation' and tackle the food thing at the interview stage?

If they're advertisisng as 'live-out accommadation provided' what sort of salary should they offer? We're in West London so going rates are £280-£320 a week for 4 days live-in (based on £350-£400 a week for 5 days) and £9-10pph live out so £400-460 net per week.

This is an interesting thread.

Sadly I have just sacked my live in nanny for stealing from me but she thought that as a live in nanny/housekeeper to 2 school age children she could go out for lunch everyday at Costa coffee and pay for it out of the kitty and that she could buy expensive ready meals from M and S for her to scoff in her own self contained accomodation ( up to £90 a week ) . My children are 12 and 10 so have a pretty adult diet.

She would sometimes collect the M and S food from the annexe and bring it back to the house to cook and eat in front of the children whilst she fed them frozen mash aunt bessies mash potato....

Incidently I didn't sack her for this.......she was buying lottery tickets and scratch cards on my credit card........

Not bad for an oftsted registered nanny......

I say live in nannies eat from the household budget. What you eat they do too and a few extras on top for things they like. But extravagence and extras they pay for. I once had a live in nanny who was not invited to eat Sunday lunch. Not on. Treat them as you would wish to be treated.

sorry that sounds wrong. A live in nanny whose previous family did not invite her to join them for sunday lunch.

I remember your thread skiing did you ever find out what the hoover bags were for?

A number of name and circs changes HLPB but uncovered a web of theft and deception.

She has had about £2k off us.

Now she is appealing dismissal; demanding redundancy and threatening employment tribunal etc.

A spohisticated conwoman who thought she was me and was living the life of an expensive stay at home wife on my credit card. I was busy well paid and trusted her. Some on here said I deserved it.

Im pretty strong but this has nearly broken me. To think I trusted her with my 2 beautiful children .

And whats more I have just had to pay her for nearly 2 weeks pay whilst she was at home suspended on full pay and being awkward about attending a disciplinary hearing. At which she said it was all a mistake...... the biggest of which was working for me.

Maybe it was just that I found her out.......

You live and learn. And Im a solicitor in RL......

I'm a live-in nanny with a seperate flat. In my contract, it states that the family provide all my food and beverages. I eat with my charge Monday to Friday. I do the food shopping for my charge and myself so decide our weekly menu. I eat at 5pm with her because I am too lazy tired to cook for myself when I get in at 7pm. I am also supposed to go to the gym/pool three nights a week after work, can't just before I exercise and by the time I get home it's too late to eat.

I'd never take the piss though, my bosses are amazingly kind and generous to me so although we have a mainly organic diet I wouldn't buy finest fillet steaks or anything like that. If I am cooking for both of us, we'll share a chicken breast/salmon fillet, etc. although she's only 10 months at the moment so doesn't need much!

For the weekend I generally buy anything I want when I go shopping with my charge but pay for it separately, but I buy store cupboard ingredients (rice, salt, ketchup, mayo type things) from work kitty.

I would suggest to your friend that she asks her new nanny to add anything to the shopping list/delivery order that she wants but if she wants anything special (not sure what this would include except alcohol (for evenings of course!) and expensive meat and special treats like chocolate, sweets etc) she has to buy it herself. Then if she doesn't take the mickey then you friend can add her specials to the family shop.

This mum should have 'all meals provided' in the contract for a number of reasons:-

1. eating with the family is a key indicator of the nature of the nanny-employer relationship. If the person works in the domestic home effectively 'as part of the family' then a number of key criteria within a number of laws are affected (eg min wage, working time directive). Normally this isn't important because families don't take the piss with this type of stuff anyway. BUT if the relationship breaks down then these things might matter if you get into any legal wranglings with the nanny
2. If you have a 'live-out with accommodation' (which is what is being proposed), the rental value of the accommodation bit will become a benefit in kind with only a small set-off allowed, so this will make things much more expensive.

Less formal reasons:-

1. It is normal to eat with the charges when on duty. Nannies expect it and I think it is v important. It's about seeing examples being set, and having a proper meal experience (sitting round with grown ups, behaving at table, talking etc).
2. The mum may not think the nanny wants to eat fish fingers or to eat at 5pm, but she's just judging by her own standards. TBH my nanny hates crap food so we give the kids a balance of child-focused treats and the kind of fare that an adult would be happy to eat (eg chicken salad with pitta bread). My nanny also says she's starving by 5 because she's running round with kids (personally I boak at thought of eating before 8, but it's horses for courses).

Of course the answer is very very easy. Contractually you say live-in with meals provided. In practice you get an on-line Tesco shop set up once a week and tell nanny to add on stuff that she wants to have for herself on her days off, if she doesn't want to eat with the family. Then there's no 'limit'. no contractual obligation, and nanny has option of eating with kids if she prefers.

Very well put Squiffy, although the point about tax on accomodation is not correct. Accomodation is not a taxable benefit where "you are in the kind of employment where it is customary for living accommodation to be provided and the living accommodation enables you to perform your duties better", which clearly applies to a live-in nanny.

The thing it does affect is that if accomodation is separate you must pay at least National Minimum Wage.

oh dear skiing you were obv right and yes what did she do with the hoover bags???

live in nannies get food paid for generally all the time but some i know will buy own meals for weekends

im the same as nannyl and would always sit with children and eat with them breakfast and lunch but not tea as too early for me at 5pm, tho obv still sit with them and chat about day as they got older and at school

As a maternity nurse I add my food needs to the families by either adding to an Internet shop or shopping for myself and the family paying me back for the food.

What is proposed is what a former amily of mine had and the nanny provided her own breakfast and supper and had lunch and tea with the children and that worked well for them.

I am a live in nanny with separate accommodation, I eat breakfast and lunch with the children and also get £200 a month food allowance for my other meals. Im encouraged to take the kids out for lunch etc often, and always pay for my own meal from my food allowance, this hasnt been requested, but i feel that it is fair. I have never bought myself even a coffee from the kitty, in fact I buy the kids things if i go for a coffee as i feel it is for me as opposed to for the kids! If there is something i particularly want for breakfast or lunch i buy it myself but keep it in the main kitchen - such food is generally shared.

My live-in nanny has been promised 3 square meals a day and tea whenever she wants it, fresh juice in the summer. Some caveats - if we like something or there's only 2 servings left of something - she lets us know and doesn't take it. If it's a little treat we bought for ourselves - some crazy expensive cheese or exotic ingredient from somewhere - it's hands off. I guess I feel pushed and pressured when she even disregards these and literally like jumps on anything that isn't nailed down. If I buy 10 apples on Sunday - I;ve probably eaten one when next Sunday rolls around - and yet they are gone. Also a weird lemon fetish I think as lemons too, disappear. As does yogurt.

If they add money to her salary for food then won't she have to pay tax on that?

Can the nanny write her shopping list for all meals and snacks that she would eat on her own then give the list to the family to buy?

£50/week for 1 person sounds a lot. We spend £20/week per person in our house and we eat very well for that.