Nursery vs Childminder & when is too young to start?

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At 3 months old :

1. is it too young to leave my baby?
2. if I did, would it better in a nursery or with a child minder?
3. what should I expect from them?

It would possibly be for 1 day & one half day per week.

Any ideas welcomed as I'm so lost looking on the internet.

(ps: I'm not due until June, just trying to work out finances/leave etc...).

Interesting to see people discussing staff turnover... worth thinking that things may change too, even with an established nursery. In ours staff turnover had been miniscule for 10 years. V strong manager who set a really good ethos. then a room head left, and gradually turnover went up. When my DC was under 18 months tthe staff hardly changed at all, then there were about 4 or 5 new staff, out of maybe 15 in total, so that was a big change. Then the manager got pregnant and went on maternity leave, sothe acting head was a bit different. We moved away not too long after, but she resigned after mat leave and after that the place changed quite a lot. v unexpected after a long period of stability.

Another friend chose a local independent nursery for it's family feel, mixed age group 'families' with small numbers of keyworkers, organic food etc. Then after 3 great years, the oweners decided to sell up. It was bought by a chain and after that went downhill dramatically.

Of course things can change with childminders and nannies too .

At one local nursery when we went to visit one child in the baby room was in a swing crying the whole time we were in the room. We were told not to worry, it was their first settling in visit and to be expected. I was horrified no-one was holding him and it was crossed off our list immediately, despite their gorgeous, stimulating, educational rooms for 2-4 year olds. Gut feel is v important!

All nurseries I have been in are ratio one to three the reality is this rarely happens. If it was a one to one how does the nursery make money.?

I agree with ritas list. My current and last nursery were both set up like this. I dont think you should ever have babies in 1:3 under a year in any circumstances personally. I also dont agree with putting any children or babies to sleep in nursery schedule and wouldnt go to a place where they put them all down to schedule. I think you should let them say when they are tired and go with the flow with every child.

I think if you go to governent funded places thee are lots of nurseries that follow ritas list as standard.

We arent that bothered about making money its community interest.

Yes I agree government funded ones are much better. IMO the big chains are the worst.

I went back when my DS was 6 months. I wanted him to form a close attachment to someone so put him with a childminder and couldn't be happier. I had actually paid the deposit at a nursery when I was pregnant but when we went for settling in I couldn't do it - there were 9 babies in the room with 3 staff, so some were always crying and not being cuddled. I realise it was a big nursery though and smaller ones can be a lot better.

Two things about CMs that you might not know - they can only have one under one year old, which is good. Mine has DS, a two year old and a 3 year old, so it's like he's the youngest child in a family rather tjan 3 babies. Also, they often form networks with other CMs - ask when you chat. Mine takes DS to a craft playgroup twice a week with another Cm and her children and if they are ill (which has never happened so far) they would step in and take each others for a day if the parents couldn't get the day off.

Good luck :)

I would never send my child to a big chain nursery or any elderly relatives to a big chain retirement home. I dont trust people who are in it for the money

You also need to think about the difference between childminder and nurseries in terms of what they offer. Even comparing the best nursery and the best childminder there will be differences.

For example, even very good nurseries rarely take the children out. Do you want your baby to spend all their time in one room, looking at the same 4 walls, same 3/4/5 other babies?

It was one of the things I hated about working in a nursery and not something I would choose for my child. I'd like them to be at playgroup, the library, music, swimming, the park, playdates etc etc. I have heard people say they chose a nursery specifically because they never leave the room and it brought them comfort to knoe exactly where their DC were at all times.

can't say much about the age, but we have used a nanny, a CM, and a nursery in the 20 months I've been back at work (since DS was 7 months). The reason for the mix and match approach was finding someone who had space -nursery had an 18 month waiting list when I registered DS there (at 5 months pg!), CM only had 2 days free, and our friends suggested a nanny share with their nanny, who they loved.

Nanny was atrocious - expensive, and ignored all my (perfectly reasonable) requests - such as feeding DS the lunch I provided, or giving him the bottle of milk I'd expressed, or giving him a nap. She lasted 3 months, whilst we struggled to find alternative care. I threw out a lot of breast milk too, which pissed me off hugely!

Childminder has been wonderful, and I can't praise her highly enough - DS adores her, loves her kids, and is good friends with one of the other toddlers she minds (and now we are becoming friends with his mum). She listens to my requests/concerns, and addresses them immediately. Despite not being a bfing mum herself (ever) and never having done it before, she fed DS expressed milk happily, and has really helped me so so much with any worries I have! She got an outstanding Ofsted report last year, and deserved every bit of it. All of us parents who use her love her!

Nursery have been good, but not as exceptional as CM. DS started at 12 months in the end. V supportive of bfing, and parents dropping by unannounced, very responsive to parents, in general the staff in the rooms are lovely. Management, not so great, and not good at communicating, but DS is happy there, and loves his days there. He adores his keyworker too, and I really like the room he's in now - the baby room was a bit too chaotic for me and DS, but as he's moved up the rooms, he has become a happier child. Not helped by him being an early walker, so in the baby room he was charging up and down, whilst the other babies rolled around a bit. They were also outstanding Ofsted last year, but IMO not as good as our CM! Moving rooms every few months is a bit disturbing for a small child too, although it seems to be settling down at our nursery - but they have rooms for babies, early toddlers, older toddlers, 2-3 yr olds, and pre-school, so by their very nature there is a lot of moving in the early years then more settled periods when the kids are older.

I have registered DD with CM and nursery for January - she's due in June :o btw, if you're due in June, feel free to join us on the June thread to whinge about being pg!!)

Sorry this is so long, but just wanted to say a bit about our experiences with all 3 kinds of care!! (I am aware that we were unlucky with the nanny too, so please don't think all/most nannies are that bad!)

molly - I think that is the key thing. If you find a LA nursery/Children's Centre nursery you are much more likely to get very high quality care for babies. Most private nurseries need to make a profit, babies are hard to make a profit on due to the staffing costs - so they need to take as many babies as possible with as few staff. I've done supply work and seen lots of private nurseries, and most had 9-12 babies per room with a 1:3 ratio, babies all have to sleep at the same time to allow staff to have lunch breaks etc.

I was lucky enough to get a place in a CC nursery for ds and there was 6 under 2s and 3 staff in his room, he slept whenever he want, staff had regular training, non-contact time to be able to do planning etc, free access to a garden. Wages are also much higher in public than private sector, so those nurseries tend to attract and keep high quality staff.

Completely agree with it being down to personal choice and what kind of nurseries / childminders you have available. I also think you need to consider what you'd want in the future and whether you'd be happy to change.

For me personally, I think 3 months is too young but if you have to go back to work when your baby is that age, like others have said, you have no choice. I also think a good nursery is better than a childminder, but thats my personal choice. My DD went from 12 months, into a dedicated babyroom, maximum number of babies, the vast majority of the time it was 1:1 care, it had a separate entrance from the rest of the nursery, was completely separate from the rest of the rooms, set out very much like a very big lounge - comfy sofas, rugs, very homely. Separate sleeping room with each baby having their own cot etc etc. Loved it from the moment I saw it. It worked brilliantly with having a key worker, used her key worker outside of nursery to babysit sometimes.

I wouldn't want a 3 month old baby at a childminders with 2 or 3 older children (from having 2 x 4 year olds when DD2 arrived, I know it was very hard to give her much attention). Think a nursery could handle this better, especially if childminder was also juggling with school run and taking your baby with her.

I also think (only personal opinion) that nurseries are better for toddlers / pre-schoolers - really good for making friends with children that might attend the same school, playing with / interacting with children of a similar age and having activities aimed specifically at their age group. I think therefore that I'd be tempted to use a nursery right from the start if I was trying to decide between the two, because I wouldn't want the baby to have to change from a childminder to a nursery at age 2 or 3.

Sorry, got a bit waffly. Just arrange to go and see all your local nurseries, speak / meet with some childminders and see which you're more comfortable with.

recommendation is the key if you can get one -nursery or childinder.

My childminder was particularly good with babies and I wouldn't have hesitated leaving DS with her at 3 months (she had had 4 of her own children and was happy to sit and cuddle the little ones if they were unhappy for any reason)

The issue with moving rooms frequently - I have seen nurseries that split the under 2s unit into as many as 4 age ranges. A baby starting at 6 months might be expected to changed room and carers at 10 months, 14 months and 20 months for example. This just demonstrates such a lack of thought and knowledge about child development imo! It would be better to split the grouping into 4 mixed age groups, or even two groups of babies and two of toddlers - however the problem with having large groups of 9-12 children and a 1:3 ratio is that if you mix babies and toddlers it is hard to keep the smaller ones safe and older ones stimulated.

The room ds was in worked really well with a large age range, because there were few enough children and enough adults to meet each individual's needs.

The youngest baby in my baby room was 3 months. He came for 2 afternoons as mum wanted time with big sister and he was happy with us and when he went full time he was great and not a bother. The 2 afternoons he was in we only had 3-4 babies with 2 members of staff, so he got a lot of attention especially as 2 of the babies had mammoth 2-3 hour naps.

We were only allowed 6 babies and rarely were they all awake at once. We did a lot with them as well as going out walks and spending time in the garden. We had french doors in the room, so easy access into the garden for us.

I think it's what you feel happier with. I knew I trusted my baby room staff to look after my baby but sadly there were no spaces for her. But every other nursery lacked what I was looking for. I just found them not up to my standards. So much so that one nursery didn't know who I was and started slagging me off to me!!! They'd had a lot of feedback from parents about how they loved my room and that they wished I had more spaces. She got a shock when I handed her her forms back and said that I was off to complain about her! I left poor dh to explain she'd just slagged me off.

I would ask other mums for recommendations. Check out nurseries and Childminders, that may help you. I have used both, i think nurseries are great for older children as it is great for them to play with their peers. For younger children a childminder offers the consistency of one to one care in a home environment. Babies do like the distraction of older children too. The one downside is if childminder is ill/ takes holiday. That said I have found childminders more flexible when a child is poorly, unless it is contagious of course. Seeing the reality of the options available will help you make the decision that is right for you and your child.

In my DC's nursery there were only 2 rooms because it was so tiny. 0-2 and 2-4. The 0-2 room worked fantastically well at the time because of low staff turnover and consistency of carers, and there only being about 10 children in total. They were very child-led too. However, the 2-4 room was not so successful IMO. The 4 year olds were so much bigger and more robust than the new 2 year olds. If was rather intimidating, and there were more kids because the ratios change quite a bit as the age goes up. They were trying to meet the needs of non-verbal 2 year olds and bright nearly ready for school 4 year olds in one setting. I was glad we moved when we did.

HolyNo, "For example, even very good nurseries rarely take the children out. Do you want your baby to spend all their time in one room, looking at the same 4 walls, same 3/4/5 other babies?"

The nursery we used took the children out at least once almost every day - they only stayed in if the weather was totally foul. They went to the library, to feed ducks, to the bakery, to the park (despite having outside space at the nursery anyway) - all sorts of things.

That's fab, but not representative of the majority of nurseries. I'm only advising the OP look at the 'general terms' of nurseries vs childminders. I'm sure there are childminders who never go out. I think you will find in 'general' that childminders/nannies get out and about more than nurseries.

It's quite rare for nurseries to be able to take children out daily - most nurseries will want to have a much higher staff:child ratio on trips out than they do in nursery for example. In my nursery we tend to do 1 per half term.

My goodness me.
I may only need the help for 1.5day a week. I just presumed these (cm/nursery) would be my only options.
Unfortunately we don't have the space for an au-pair (yet- tho as we're a bilingual family,are looking into this for future), & thought a nanny wouldn't want to work such short hours.
I don't know many other mums to ask for recommendations,

I will get updated date list of cm's from council (I've seen that some of them do & don't take young babies etc...) & should I see nurseries now?, as some of you posted you had to wait for ages for places on waiting lists etc... sorry for million of questions, but this is best place to ask x Thnks everyone.

Am quite surprised to hear people saying that nurseries don't take the children out - that is the exact opposite of my experience. When my eldest were at nursery there were 3 separate play areas and the children were out there as much as possible - as they went into the toddler room (at 18months / 2 yrs from memory) they were assigned all in one waterproof suits, we had to leave wellies / warm clothing there and even if it was raining / cold etc, they were outside. They were next to a farm with a llama, they went there every day to see the animals etc.

It just goes to show OP that everyone has a different view - as others have said, visit as many as you can, get recommendations.

I disagree that government funded nurseries offer better care than private nurseries, in my opinion, the level of funding they receive is miniscule compared to private nurseries so yes, there is a profit element at private nurseries but also a very big pot for resources, training, extra activities that a government funded nursery simply can't compete with.

When you get the list of CMs ignore what it says about vacancies. Even if it says it's updated recently, they're often wrong as situations change, so just contact any you think are possibilities. They will soon tell you if they are fully booked for months to come. I'd visit nurseries now, yes. If you can afford it, it may also be worth putting down a deposit even if you're not totally sure. The amounts they ask for vary.

A 1.5 day a week nanny is not impossible. Lots of people want one 3 days a week, so some have 2 'spare' days.

Recommendations are really tough with DC1 , as you don'tt yet have the networks of other parents . don't forget CMs and nurseries have OFSTED reports, although there's no substitute for visiting, asking questions and your own instincts.

Are you sure Mandy? I've never come across a private nursery that has the budget for anything like as high wages or as much training as a LA nursery. LA nurseries tend to have much higher staff to child ratio, level 3 qualified workers are paid £18-21k compared to £13-14k in private nurseries. Much more access to training for staff (eg. I have been able to do 4 courses this academic year through the LA) and are able to get extra funding for children with additional needs, visits from SALTs, physiotherapists etc.

Mandy when I said they don't take them out I didn't mean outside, I meant out on trips, out into the community.

I would expect even the worst nurseries to have an outside play area that the children could have access to more or less everyday.

Thnx woolyhead.
Does anyone know ...how much is an average for CM per hour? .Ive only seen one CM advertising a price at £7.50p/h & one £65 per day!!! why don't most nurseries website post their prices???? I guess they vary a lot,but what do people pay per day / half day as an average ish????

I know money questions on m/n can be a bit taboo so I'm sorry if I offend anyone, I don't mean to. I just cant find info on internet......its very frustrating.