Students present at birth..

[SheWillBeLoved]

Has anybody refused to have students present during their labour?

Part of me wants to put in my birth plan that I only want necessary people present. I don't want to feel like some sort of spectator sport during my first labour but I also know that they have to learn and experience these things as part of their course, and have no idea about whether I'm being completely unreasonable to ask for only qualified midwives to be present.

In fact, I know I'm being unreasonable I suppose I'm just looking for someone other than DP to tell me that it's okay to request the labour that I want, even if when it comes down to it I suppose you don't give a crap if you have the England football team stood in the room watching!

i didn't want anyone there when i was giving birth never mind students!

half way through ds2's birth the midwife said that a student dr had asked if he could watch the birth and she had said she didn't think it was appropriate but would ask me anyway. it was a resounding no!

Piscesmoon - Student's can't qualify until they have witnessed/taken part in a certain amount of deliveries. It's not as though they're going to graduate with less experience than others, because a handful of people have refused to have them present. They'll simply get it from another woman giving birth, possibly an hour or less after one refusing to have them present. I'm sure a lot more women say yes to having them present, rather than refusing.

I've never given birth before, I have no idea what my pain or emotional threshold is under such circumstances, and so I would feel a lot more comfortable not feeling under pressure to have complete strangers watching me, even if it is for a good cause.

I wasn't looking to be told that I'm wrong for insisting on my 'rights', I was simply looking for reassurance from others who have been in this situation, who can tell me that it is okay to say no and I won't receive death stares from groups of students for the duration of my stay! I don't want to step on anybodies toes, but I also don't want to be pushed into having people present who I do not wish to be present.

Women on here are always insisting that you push for the birth which you want - so why is it wrong for me to do so in this case?

I put on my birth plan that I didnt want any students present when I gave birth but they sent one in anyway. I didn't have the birth I wanted, however, I really enjoyed it (with the help of Pethidine) and I didn't notice that the student midwife wasn't qualified, she was very competent, lovely and supportive.
Normally I would never say the more the merrier when it comes to people staring at my flossy, but in my case I was glad that my student was there (to help with the PPH) surely if these students annoyed you you could just ask them to leave.
However, ultimately the decision is yours, and as it is such a personal time especially with you feeling more vulnerable than you ever have done, you have to do what you feel is right for you and not what you think other people want you to do.

I love having students because I can lecture tell them all about hyperemesis so that if they go off and become GPs, midwives etc they won't say dorkish things like 'Your sickness will stop at 12 weeks. Have you tried ginger biscuits?' Make the most of having a captive audience, I say.

Obviously people make the choice for themselves. I don't see how you can possibly know-the student might be far nicer than the midwife! However each to his own. I would never,ever write a birth plan.

I'd have the student present personally. When I had DD, the staff shortage was so severe that her care was neglectful. At least having a student there, I would have had someone with some vague medical knowledge monitoring me. Even though DH was there, it didn't make a lot of difference - they ignored him. I would have loved to have a student.

i had written something not wanting students. but mw asked at the time and i said yes. it was only one student (i had imagined 10, standing in the corner peering over clipboards).

she was lovely very patient and supportive and gentle. unlike the actual midwife.
i think she had a fair bit of experience by the time she met us.

unfortunately i went through another 2 mw, due to shift changes and long labour, before ds was finally pulled out!

but we both really liked the student.

That is why I wouldn't write it down first-how can you know until you are in the situation and have seen the student? I found it much better to be very friendly with the staff and take it from there-rather than issue my orders in advance.

I had a student in my first labour - if it's a student midwife there's usually only one (in addition to the "real" midvife) so it's a bit like a home birth in that respect.

The student I saw was lovely and far nicer than the midwife who was an old battleaxe

I think YABU...and it may well not be possible, if it is a teaching hospital, than by going there you are agreeing that you also become a teaching case...
anyway, students are often totally brilliant and caring and can be a real good addition to your careteam....

I would have refused a student if I had been asked with dd2.
I had a student for the first 9 hours with dd1, birth was complicated by pre-eclampsia, back to back baby & induction (drip) Student involvement meant that examinations to see how dilated I was were protracted & painful - student first & then midwife - on one occasion student, midwife then student. I was left with just the student for too long & too often & worst of all the student was reading a book entitled "what to do when things go wrong" in the room with me.
All added up to a bad impression with students I'm afraid.

FairLady - that isn't correct, actually. Often the only hospital nearby is a teaching hospital and you do not automatically constent to be a subject for students just by going to that hospital. You have the right to refuse the presence of a student at any time.

I agree that students won't learn if they don't see real live patients, but I think that birth is a very specific circumstance. For what it's worth, I have consented for students to be present at lots of other medical procedures. But when I have a colposcopy I don't have to do anything. I can just lie there and tune out the presence of everyone else. When I deliver a baby, it is me who has to do the delivering and the environment needs to be right for me to do that.

MrsTittlemouse, I agree that birth is a very specific procedure but equally it's the only one that student midwives can view, iyswim?!

Having said that, I don't think anyone should have a student if they are uncomfortable with the idea, but many people's idea of what it will be like is fairly inaccurate IMO. I think the "row of clipboards" is quite a common misconception and certainly my experience was quite different, it was simply like having a second, slightly more deferential midwife present.

I had a student for the first and I wish the midwife had left us too it alone, the student was a star and unfortunatly I got the impression that the midwife was annoyed by having a student present.The Midwife was all for letting me labour on for hours flat on my back and it was only when the change over in staff happened that the poor student managed to get someone to actually listen to her concerns about my pain and exhaustion levels.The new midwife looked through the curtains and had me off to theatre where the student came with me.Thanks to the orignal Midwife I have had to have two sections since.

Second time I had three students in with me as I was having silent labour and they wanted to see what this was like.

Third time I had no students.

SheWillBeLoved: You need to do whatever is right for you to optimise the chances of having a straightforward birth. If this means no students then so be it.

Clearly there are plenty of people who don't mind so there wouldn't seem to be a problem with students getting enough experience.

I specified no students last time (first time) but would be agreeable to having one there this time. But no I wouldn't want a crowd.

I think a birth plan is really important. Then you - and everyone else know what you would like to happen. Of course its not written in stone but its something to aim for. You may find it useful to have things written down if you don't want/can't speak later.

Hm...maybe it is different in the UK...but, when I did my nursing training in Germany, with a University Hospital, it was the case, and, possibly wrongly I assmued it is the norm.

And whilst I agree Birth is a specific time in a woman's life, how else is a student midwife to learn, if all women refused...you will soon run out of knowledgable midwifes....

I had a student with me when son #2 was born, and yes, a doublewhammy of internal examination is not necessarily my idea of good fun, it is NOT the end of the world...

I feel I was sort of bullied into having a student at the birth of my dd. My midwife kept going on about how they are never let in 'due to religious reasons' and I was so tired (24 hours into labour) that I just said yes ok.

Total nightmare - he came in, wasn't really interested, sat next to me texting his friends (I began to get concerned that he was going to use the bloody camera phone),tried to talk to my dh about the football (while I was pushing - dh just grunted at him) and then surreptitiously changed the channel on the tv (behind his back) to the football.

He only got animated when the head started to show and then he kept on and on asking us questions after I'd given birth when dh and I wanted to be on our own.

I'm sure most students are lovely and we were unlucky but if I did it again I'd tell the midwife that I'd happily have students in if they know how to behave and if they don't she must boot them out as dh and I were too shocked/exhausted.

Just to clarify - mine was a student doctor who obviously had no interest in the field. I'd hope student midwives would be more clued up!

I had a student, she was trying to put the iv drip in for the c section I was having that morning, she failed 3 times and went off in a strop to get a qualified MW, qualified MW wouldn't do it so got an anaesthetist.

She really upset me, I was anxious as it was and the student was rude and crap.

Another student MW was there after DS was born, he held DS by my face so I could see him, I instantly said "Wow, he's big, how much does he weigh?" and the MW said "Yes he's a big boy, we'll tell you his weight tomorrow maybe"

If I am lucky enough to have another baby I wouldn't refuse having a student MW around

ah i remember, in my birth plan i had written that privacy was very important.

no wonder the mw asked (i hadnt written no students specifically)

i think its worth giving the student a chance.

if you dont like them, tell them you dont want so many people around anymore, or something like that.

I'm a student Midwife going into my 2nd year. Of course it is up to the woman if she would like a student present or not, and if you do agree to a student been present then you can say what type of student. eg medical students do tend to just sit there and observe and there may be more than 1, whereas student midwives will be a lot more invloved in your care as this is what we are training to do I had a student midwife delivering my child and she was great.

The training is 50% theory and 50% practical in the hospital. We have to deliver a total of 40 babies and do 100 postnatal and 100 antenatal examinations before we can qualify (as well as passing the numerous essays and exams!) So the fact is we need to get as much experience as possible!as after 3 years we will be qualified. I'd rather get as much experience now as a student with an experienced midwife supervising me then to be the sole midwife responsible for a womens care with only limited experince behind me.

I've delivered 19 babies now but that's because I've been lucky that women have agreed to have me present and involved in their care, one girl in my class has only delivered 1 baby so far.

you're absolutely not being unreasonable - put it in your birth plan if you think having a student there is going to make you uncomfortable/nervous/whatever. it's your first birth and you have no idea how you're going to feel - you can always change your mind later!

i'm due in 4 weeks and have put 'no students please' in my birth plan - mainly because DP will be there, as will my doula (who happens to be a student midwife as well anyway, although not training at the hospital i'll be going to), the qualified midwife will presumably be popping in and out - any more people & i think it would start to feel a bit like piccadilly circus, which i can't really imagine will be conducive to creating a relaxed birthing environment!

just go with what you feel is right and try not to let anyone feel guilty about planning the birth you want. good luck with it

I had a student DR he was lovely, he was very moved & tearful when ds1 was born.
He looked about 12 yrs old though which I did find a bit off putting at first, he also asked if I usualy swore or was it because I was in pain.

A student midwife saved my life 31 years ago.

My mum had been in labour with me all day (in the days before scans were routine).

She was in agony as I was rather late and was my mum's first.

She had been examined by a couple of midwifes, but at about 10pm a student came in, examined my mum again, and said she thought I was breach.

This was a tiny local country hospital. The Dr was called back from a black tie do in full evening gown (think 1970s Farrah hair) and I was born 20 mins later by emcs. They said probably I would have died or been severely brain damaged, and my mum would also have been in real danger.

So basically I owe my life to that student.