Help convince me to try a VBAC

[SarahL2]

Went to see the "Birth Afterthoughts" lady at the hospital today to discuss DS's birth and what went wrong.

Basically - I had pre-eclampsia and had to be induced at 40+4. Induction did not work and after 48 hours and (what she described as) massive doses of Syntocin (sp?) I was still not in proper labour. I was not having reliable and regular contractions and was just in masses of almost constant pain. DS's heartrate was flat and in the 180's (as it had been for at least 24 hours previously) and as I had only gotten to 3cms, it was decided to deliver him by EMCS. I lost 600ml of blood during the procedure. DS had an APGAR score of just 6 at 1 minute and needed help breathing. This rose to 9 at 5 minutes but even the lady we were talking to today said we were very, very lucky he was OK. It was also found when they opened me up that DS was back to back - no-one had told me this before...

Apparently, there is no physical reason why I couldn't give birth naturally but I'm scared. Scared that I or we will get ill again. Scared that I will be left too long again with a baby in distress and will not be so lucky this time....

The thought of a planned section, earlier than my due date, to get my baby out before all of this could go wrong again is quite conforting but will I feel like I failed again?

I was also told today that I potentially have quite a low pain threshold which is why I found the whole thing so painful so it is quite likely I will need another epidural - should I just go straight for the total block and get it all over and done with with a speedy c-section?

if you can't afford a doula, be aware that natural birth is more likely if you have a woman with you throughout the birth - could be your mum, a friend, anyone you trust really - but apparently makes a difference

Sarah, my first DS birth was similar to yours - really really long labour, many shift changes at the hospital and that god awful syntocin being turned up all the time.
It was inhuman - I cannot believe to this day that this is normal procedure.
I consider myself to have a high pain threshold, and former National Athlete so a bit of hard work doesn't scare me.

With my second birth 4 years later, I decided to go private - but my consultant left the whole decision up to me.

I choose an elective CS, it was brilliant. I had a speedy recovery just like the first time. A couple of days and back to normal.

If I could afford another baby, and was young enough I wouldn't hesitate to choose elective again. It is the best decision I ever made. Its not really like the emergency CS, for one you wont have been through hours and hours of labour!

good luck

Sarah - once I analysed how I felt (and the immediate shock had worn off) I realised that I too was afraid of the hospital midwives and protocols. Which is why this time I have hired an independent midwife who is going to come with me into hospital and be my safety net. There are lots of different ways you can take control of your care and make sure that at the very least you have competent people looking after you (not saying that the hospital midwives are not good - but that they weren't last time and I want to know I am in safe hands).

Also, agree with Lulu that whoever was doing your afterthoughts thing sounds like a scaremonger. I lost about the same amount of blood and was told it was average. And who on earth are they to judge your pain threshold? They're just supposed to help you understand why things happened the way they did and to let you vent a bit, aren't they? Doesn't sound like they were very helpful...

You clearly had a horrible experience and I am sorry for that. I totally agree with Sparky that to have somebody with you who you trust and who could be your advocate would be A Very Good Thing. If you cannot go down the doula route, how about a calm friend, somebody you could talk your birth plan through with and who could talk for you when you are busy with labour?
Or do you have the option of having your care and delivery at a different hospital if you are not that comfortable with the one you delivered in the last time?

At the end of the day there are so many variables during conception/pregnancy/delivery that it is impossible to predict or guarantee any given outcome.
I was v interested to read about people's quicker recoveries after CS than vaginal delivery but it just shows how every experience is different.

I personally felt that none of my deliveries (induction, emCS and VBAC) were a "failure" because they all resulted in a healthy baby and a healthy me . It helped me a lot to think positively about how I would feel if I had another CS and I decieded that it would be fine if medically necessary, but not my preferred choice.

Like others have said you can change your mind right until the last minute (I have known women scheduled for elective sections getting off the operating table and going home ) and nobody can force you to do anything. How to deal with gentle pressure is a whole other story...

Lots of the suggested links are really good, go and have a read. There is something else called something like "VBAC back chat" or similar - I am not sure of an exact web address. Anybody know it? It is a forum for woman considering VBAC, apparently. I am not familiar with it; it was discussed on some other VBAC thread recently and sounded good.

Was talking to a woman who had a baby at MK a few weeks ago who was left with noting but gas and air cause there were no aneastatists free to administer painkillers!!!

It didn't fill me with confidence.

hi sarah,
i had very sim 1st birth story to you for DS1. PE followed by inhumane 3 day induced labour and emergency section at 40+11.
8 week old DS2 was born by much wanted VBAC the day before a planned section at 40+12. I wanted to give vbac a go after long recovery from section. i felt that there would be a good chance that things would be ok if i could go into spontaneous and i was lucky enough to have a very positive experience. my one stipulation this time was that i completely refused induction as it was horrific last time.
The only thing that was annoying was the pre eclampsia bit me in the bum a week after i delivered?! who knew that could happen? consultant told me that PE often presents 2 weeks later in subsequent pregnancies.
good luck in your pregnancy and birth whatever you decide is right for you x

I will DEFINITELY be refusing another induction Becktay. If I get PE again and baby needs to be delivered early then it will be a section without any hesitation. The only decision comes if I don't get ill.

I didn't know you could get PE after delivery! If the only cure for PE is delivery of the baby, how do they make you better?

At the moment I think I'm about 60/40 for a section.

sarah,.. re administering pain relief.. an aneasthatist is the only one who can give an epidural. a midwife can give diamorphine and meptid.

there may be anotehr reason that lkady did not get her pain killers

e.g too close to delivery.. opiates given too close to delivery can depress teh baby;s breathing reflex

I did think that cause I remember being given Meptid by a midwife while I was trying to have DS

Nothing helped till the epidural

I do wonder how much of my pain was caused by the Synotcin/induction/back-to-back baby though....

Just gotten back from my 15 week midwife appointment. I spoke to her about the worries that I've had since I spoke to the lady at the hospital and she said...that she would advise I have another section!!

She seemed to be saying that in her experience, if a sweep, pessaries and Syntocin couldn't put me in proper labour at 40+4 then it would be unlikely that my body would be able to get far enough, fast enough for me to not end up with another section anyway as they wouldn't let me labour for very long on a section scar.

Thoughts?

I would ask for the evidence to back that statement up.
Remember the 40 weeks for a "normal" pregnancy is not cast in stone. In France the normal length of pregnancy is 42 weeks and only after that would you be considered overdue.
I found my induction (pessaries, epidural, Synto, baby in normal position though), although it worked, much more painful than the delivery that followed spontanous labour. Both times I was close to 42 weeks (41+5 and 41+4).
Depending how keen you are on VBAC I would hold out as long as you feel you can.

Disclaimer: unless she comes up with the evidence for what she said...

i would say that a combination of things, not least the fact your body was most likely not ready to labour at 40 + 4 , you had an OP baby and were immobile... all those things will have contributed to your c section

FWIW< i was induced at 39+1, ARM & Synto, epidural, c section at 2 - 3cm. no progress and baby pressing on my bladder

second time around spontaneous start to labour at term, establised labour of 3 hours 15 with an OP baby who remained OP> no epidural this time

two totally different experiences

you cannot predict who will have a repeat c.s BUT i do thikn your best chance of a VBAC starts with a spontaneous start to labour

once you start with interventions you are on a time limit

alos, there should not be a time limit on a trial of labour UNLESS there are signs you or your baby are not tolerating labour well.

it could take you 2 hours or 16 hours to gt to 10 cm, and if all is well, it should not matter how long

the 1 cm per hour is an average tht few women stick to

they give you loads of drugs to reduce your bp.
very unlikely that this happens after delivery though. guess i was still awash with hormones.

Found out my BP was low yesterday which will be why I've been feeling so grotty... am almost hoping for another bout of PE so I don't have to make this decision as I'm finding it really tough

I really really don't think that you would have failed if you have a c-section. The most important thing is the baby and you. It doesn't matter how you give birth as long as you are safe and happy with your decision. I had a totally elected c-section from choice with no medical reason. I don't think that I have failed. I have a beautiful baby and we are both doing really well.
The reason the medical prof like vbac is because it is cheaper, c-sections cost more. If you were my best friend I'd say do what you feel most comfortable with and put you and baby first. Also remember it is you that has to go through it all not the midwife, doctors or people on mumsnet etc...

Take care of yourself and I hope whatever decision you make it is the right one for you.

i had a read of your experience and it is horrendous! it is such a crime what you went through! no wonder ur scared. having said that, giving birth is not a competition or to prove you can do it.

the most important thing is to get your baby out healthy. also, i think a lot of women have negative conotations (sp?)about csections.

bottom line is there is no easy way to get a baby out. there are 2 ways of getting a baby out. csection is one of the two.

do not feel bad! having a csection is not a failure. just like not bfeeding exclusively for 2 years is not a failure!

why do we women make it so hard for ourselves by having labels like that?

giving birth is tough. no matter which way. the recovery is tough. and looking after a newborn 24/7 is tougher still!

if you are going for a vbac, i would suggest get a private midwife. or go to a private birthing centre. where you will be looked after. the NHS just cannot cope. by having a csection, hopefully, you will get better care. it is sad but true.

But I agree with everybody else, do what you feel is right for you. Have I now said that for the 3rd time on this thread ?
Giving birth by CS, planned or otherwise, is most definetely NOT a failure, and jolly hard work.
The hospital I delivered all 3 of mine has a 40% CS rate . VBAC is NOT encouraged to save money, it is not encouraged full stop, but IS thankfully supported if the woman wants it.

Just a special thanks to charleymouse. Book arrived from Pinkjenny earlier in the week and I started it last night

and a Thanks to Pinkjenny for posting it too...