Natural - v - Caesarean - a new thread

[JoolsToo]

sorry to be bossy but can we carry on here?

I'm for natural when possible

If you click on the link I put further down there's some stuff on CS and PND - no connection between them, apparently.

Morningpaper you said : "I'd be very grateful to know exactly what I did wrong then "... why do you think I'd say you did anything wrong? Why put the blame on you ?????
No amount of preparation (believe me I have prepared my own births to death!!!) can really prepare you or your DP.
There are many reasons why births are difficult... I know my own first took 24 hours with 6 hours of 2nd stage.... and no pain relief as when I started begging for some I was in 2nd stage and it was too late... and I hate gas and air.

Things that make a birth difficult: (and BTW this applies to me too!!!)
Main one : badly positioned baby - however there are ways in labour to try to improve this - there is no guarantee.
Mother very tired
Mother unable to cope with breathing (and I use to teach yoga - the right breathing at the right moment does make a difference hence I feel that on the whole the 29 births I have attended.... they all got their breathing sorted quickly.... some MWs did help with this on the whole they don't)
Mother's capacity to "let go" in labour.... you can not control the birth you must learn to let go and let your body take over... fear/anxiety is a perfect example of a labour hinderance
Labour environment is not respectful : noisy, too bright, constant stream of people, mother too hot or too cold, mother talked to or asked Q,...

all of those then

My say!!
C/s are life savers. Many women would, and did used to, die in labour without them. As would the unborn child. They have a place, and a purpose.

I do think that women who book themselves in for their first birth a c/s only for'convinience' a little confusing. This is how we were made, for this purpose. At least give it a go! What can be more frightening than being cut open and having surgery? IMO it isn't the easy option. VBAC's can possibly be more risky and then I think it is completely as the mother's wishes.

Otherwise, as I say above, it is a life saving operation and we should be grateful for sciences advances. At the end of the day, you have to do whatever you feel is best i suppose, as you will feel easier about your experience and it would be less of a stressful situation.

twiglett, re: men.....

DH nearly fainted when I had the amnio. At the delivery (CS) he popped his head over the screen to see DS being born. Afterward, the OB said to him, 'you were very brave having a look'.

Brave!!!!! FFS, I was the one who was preggers, had an amnio, gave birth and nearly had my boobs sucked off BF.

Ooh, it still gets me now

Ooops. Sorry Twiglett - didn't mean my post to sound as if I was knocking caesareans in any way. Just meant that it's fine to go with either - we spend too much time getting stressed about whether we are or are not doing the right thing. I'd have loved a "normal" birth (whatever that is) but ended with an emergency section. Just trying to say that it didn't upset me that I didn't get my "choice"

tsk, tsk flossam - making assumptions about how a woman will feel being in surgery. Mine was a ball - it was a lovely experience, especially as all the team present were girls and the anaesthetist was preggers!!

But afterwards too? I'm a surgical nurse, not having much experience with ceasers but the general gist is similar.

Pupuce: "you must learn to let go and let your body take over"

I'm sure you didn't mean it to, but this sounds v. patronising. It's like telling someone to submit to a nice death, dear. Or let go and let the torture happen.

This sounds like a crap self-justification, but I've spent a lot of my life learning meditation techniques - hey I once spent 48 hours on a Buddhist-style silent retreat doing nothing but listening to my breathing. So I'm not a naturally hysterical person.

I tried those things Pupuce - although yes I was tired, but then I was in labour for a day and two nights. I think that, even GIVEN all those variables, there are still plenty of women who find labour and birth sheer hellish agony. And for all those unfortunate souls, this talk of 'a good experience' is just a dreadful lie.

Talking about competition - I had one friend actually say to me that my first birth didn't really count, because I had an epidural, so I didn't really know what it was like (bear in mind she had NEVER had a baby). Then of course my second birth, though a homebirth and unmedicated, was obviously easy because it was a 2nd birth. Reminds me of Kate Winslet saying she had an unmedicated natural birth - oh actually it was a caesarean. Fine to have a caesarean, but why lie?

Ok here goes not relishing backlash but ho-hum...had lovely elective section with first on the following grounds; did not want to tear and have stitches, prefer not to wee when I sneeze, wanted husband to see me as sexual being post baby and not remember rather large child emerging from my vagina, could plan ahead and know when it was all going to happen, could be relaxed and enjoy becoming a mummy and finally so that everything remained the same with my sex life and didn't feel 'larger' down there. Pregnant with second and having another section soon. Hurrah for individual choice and consultants that listen!

OMG this is long. Sorry but I just can't read it all. Somewhere way down someone asked about the uterus stretching more with susequent caesareans. The deal is where the uterus is cut and then heals, the scar tissue doesn't stretch. Then, if you have another caesarean, there is a nother line of scar tissue that doen't stretch... and so on. So the rest of the uterus has to stretch more in susequent pregnancies. And the thinner it gets the more likely it is to tear. So that is why if you want lots of children, caesarean may not be the best option to begin with.

Also, somewhere way down Christina (I think it was christina) mentions that the level of trust in your carer (whether that be your obstetrician or midwife or whomever) is a factor in making a choice on method of delivery. I think she makes an extremely important point. I would prefer to go for caesarean largely because I don't have faith that the people around me will recommend one as soon as they should (if they should). So I would rather just plan one to reduce risks of things going wrong.

Nature intended me and ds to be dead, my daughter to have never existed and my husband to be a widower. I'm not such a big fan.
I have seen a lot of stuff written about Victoria Beckham's sections - not just her choice of names. It's pretty spiteful IMO.
Flossam, I was mildly nervous going into my first c-section (esp as it was likely to be pretty complex due to complete placenta praevia) - I was so happy and relieved going into my second as it would mean an end to the truly appalling torment of my back contractions. I loved the staff, loved the lack of pain, loved seeing my healthy daughter. As I said earlier, the experience of labour gave me panic attacks that stopped me sleeping for two whole nights - every time I closed my eyes I started to hyperventilate and feel claustrophobic. This was a LOT scarier than my civilised sections. Of course other people will feel differently - that's why I believe in choice!

And I can see my children because I had elective sections

a Natural choice for me .. eyesight or vaginal delivery .. mmmm?

Highlander, don't feel too bad about your "brave" DH. I have a friend whose partner peeked over and said "whoa, I don't know if you've ever gutted a deer but it's just like that... even smells the same."

I wish I'd had mumsnet for my 2nd birth. It took me 7 years before I dared conceive again. I would have been so happy to have a section.

I had 28 hours of labour before having a ceasarean 1st time round because I wouldn't dilate past 9.5 cm. Second time round I was told my pelvis was too small to give birth vaginally!! I was gutted 1st time round because I did NCT classes and the teacher was anti-ceasarean and it made me feel like a failure. I wish I hadn't taken her feelings on ceasareans to heart because it took me a long time to recover emotionally from feeling like I had failed in childbirth and therefore as a woman and a mother. Second time round, I was more confident in my ability as a mother, and I really enjoyed the experience of my elective c-section.

Does annoy me that women are made to feel that they have failed as woman and mothers if they have not gone through hours of agony preferably without pain relief to produce a rather squashed looking child with a cone shaped head. Don't feel I missed out on that 'wonderful' experience much prefer the relaxed Sunday morning section followed by some wonderfully chilled champagne - but did miss my copy of the days Telegraph for when DS was napping!

"but then prunegirl stastically speaking women who have CS's (particularly unplanned ones) are at higher risk of developing PND than those who don't"

Have to butt in here and just say, there was an article on the news today, confirming that women who have c-sections are at no greater risk than those delivering naturally, your risk is the same however you deliver.

Does no-one worry about 23% c secions in the UK? Is it just me? If so, I'll slope off!

It is high but what is the 10% WHO target based on?

It's based on what loads of experts thought at a conference, scroll down to the AIMs report.

Aloha - I share your views completely.

I have one DS and when I became pregnant my first concern was to lay my cards on the table and ask my consultant ob whether it was possible to opt for a cs - I knew it was highly unlikely but I had to ask. As predicted he said no.

Resigned with fear and dread to what I just knew would be the totally hideous expereince of labour, I dilligently wrote out my birthplan. No gas and air and certainly no pethidine (I don't routinely use powerful narcotic drugs in the course of my everyday life so why would I inflict them on my unborn baby?) epidural was to be my only permitted form of pain relief.

Onset of labour exactly on due date - 1.00am, moderatley painful to begin with painful enough to rule out any chance of sleep that night. 8.00am becoming very painful. 1.00am almost unbearable - midwife made home visit and advised admission to hospital 3.00pm admitted to hospital in almost intolerable pain - internal exam performed and guess what - 1cm dilated!!! My worst fears confirmed - I was almost at the end of my tether and I still had 9cm left!! Paracetamol prescribed - oh, not forgetting the TENS machine - not quite sure which was least effective.

I won't bore you with what hapened between 3.00pm and 10.00pm but during that time I was left to labour in almost intolerable pain in a most undignified manner on a crowded post natal ward behind a curtain. 10.00pm admitted to labour ward whereupon a further internal revealed I had reached - wait for it - 4cm!! This really was turning out to be a total living nightmare where all my worst fears were realised beyond my wildest dreams.

10.30pm told I couldn't have an epidural as the unit was understaffed and someone else was having one. Refused all other pain relief as per dilligently written birthplan. At that point, despite having my mother and DH with me, I've never felt more alone, distressed, scared, disoriented, exhausted and in so much pain I just didn't have any resources left to draw on. I felt totally helpless. That was the lowest point of my life to date.

10.45pm fetal heartrate decelleratinons noted as a point of concern. MW decided too risky to wait to analyse sample of blood from baby's head to test for distress so taken for emergency CS. Ahhhh , I've never felt so happy,elated, relieved, thankful and humble. Spinal block was sited and CS over before I knew it it seemed. DS born healthy (covered in poo!) and with Agpar scores right where they were supposed to be.

DH and I only ever planned to have one child so luckily I've not had to repeat the birthing process. If I had, I would have insisted on an elective cs which I would have had first time around given my choice.

I firmly believe that if DS had been born in 1900 rather than 2000 one or both of us would have died. Thank god that a cs could be performed so quickly.

I recovered extremely well and quickly and tbh the only thing that would put me off of having a cs again would be the state of the hospitals in this country and the post-surgery risk of hospital transmitted infections such as MRSA. The thought of an elective cs in a nice private clinic in Switzerland - that's the way to have a baby!!

I totally agree that there are no medals awarded for giving birth vaginally and/or without pain medication. I feel that I expereinced far more of a "natural labour" than I would have liked to - thank god I didn't have to suffer the final indignity of actually heaving and humping the baby out. I'd say good luck to those that have, will and who have a desparate need or desire to do so. I hope they find the experience as rewarding and morally uplifting as others here who have had positive experiences of vaginal deliveries and so-called "natural childbirth". At the end of the day everyone should be allowed to choose the type of birthing expereince they want - and that includes opting for an elective cs.

I'm happy that I am a good mum and that's what counts - not how DS came into the world. The fact that I nourished and nutured a beautiful, prefect child inside me for 9 months is what gave me a sense of achievement when I looked at him sleeping peacefully in his little fish tank on the post natal ward.

btw - go Posh - you're not as daft as they all think you are!!!

But no-one here, me included, disagrees: c sections save lives! Yes! They are appropriate sometimes. But not always, we don't all want them.

But no-one here, me included, disagrees: c sections save lives! Yes! They are appropriate sometimes. But not always, we don't all want them.