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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Active Birth Experience's

62 replies

MammyShirl · 24/01/2003 14:12

I am 32 weeks pregnant and i have decided to have an Active Birth, I am very interested to hear from anyone who gave birth this way. The idea of it sounds great but I am not sure if its realistic, would I be able to stand the pain?, The labour may go on so long that I am too tired for upright positions or there my be complications/emergency and then my birthplan goes out the window!!! Few of my friends who have children said when they gave birth they felt "so out of it" they did not know what was going on. I want to be aware and if possible somehow enjoy the birth. I am really looking forward to it and cant handle the anticipation of it all. Although I feel this little person move round all day and feel like I know them, I just cant imagine that in a couple of months I am going to meet this little person. What will they look like, what will their little voice sound like and what will the birth be like? I just hope I wont be one of those people who say "never again!".

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zebra · 28/01/2003 17:46

I wanted to move around in labour; I had no doubt that of course I would be "active". Instead my legs turned to jelly with each CTX, and I couldn't even stand, much less walk around. I had pethidine because I was told I was 5 hours from fully dilated (more like 45 minutes, it turned out), so had to be hooked up to a machine; the monitoring meant I couldn't even kneel against the back of the bed (wires didn't stretch). If you want active birth that would be my advice; avoid the strong painkillers.

But I don't think there's any moral brownie points in how one gives birth, either, whether one opts for drugs after all. Just be grateful if you can avoid those risks.

musica · 28/01/2003 17:55

I had an epidural - I'd bravely put in my birth plan 'no epidural, no pethidine, no TENS, just gas and air please'. When it came to it I was induced, and was already in labour...and I was pleading for the epidural - but it was fantastic. Ok it meant I was on the bed, but going from a state where I had gone from 0 to 8 cm in an hour, to a pain-free labour was wonderful. I also had quite a few stitches, so it helped with that. Ds was huge - nearly 10lb, and in posterior position, so in hindsight it was the right decision. And I found that I could walk again very soon afterwards. With number 2 I'm going for homebirth - I'm working on the assumption that it was the induction that made it SO bad last time!!! But I certainly didn't have regrets about having an epidural with no. 1.

SoupDragon · 28/01/2003 17:56

Zebra, yes! Jelly legs! That was my problem.

Wills, my local hospital didn't offer the "mobile epidurals" when I had my DSs. I was very disappointed as I didn't want to be immobilised by the full one.

Anyway, MammyShirl, you won't know if an active birth is realistic for you until you get there. As I'm sure has been said before, just remain open to change should your birth experience not follow your plans to the letter. For example, I couldn't have know I would suffer from Jelly Legs until it happened - it happened with DS2 as well so it must be how I'm made Enough people give birth "actively" to show that it is a realistic possibility but, on the other hand, some women find it's not for them when push comes to shove (so to speak ). Good luck! I hope you get the experience you want.

Alibubbles · 28/01/2003 18:02

You might all be interested to read this article from the Daily Telegraph, hope I'm allowed to post it!

l

Tuesday 28 January 2003t an
Women
Home births without hazards
(Filed: 24/01/2003)

Fewer caesareans and greater power for midwives... we could learn much from the Dutch, says Barbara Lantin
'It gave me a good start'

With one complicated birth behind her, Deborah Abrahams, 38, was determined to have her second child at home. Her wish was granted without the slightest fuss, and Flo arrived safely last November - in Amsterdam.
Deborah Abrahams gave birth to Flo at home. 'It was a totally different experience. It gave me a great feeling of strength'

Had Deborah and her husband Michael Blass - both British theatre directors - been living in Britain, their chances of achieving a home birth for Flo would have been minimal. The proportion of home births in this country has plummeted from 36 per cent in 1958 to two per cent today. In Holland, about 32 per cent of babies are born at home.

Nor is that the only difference in obstetric practice between the two countries: the caesarean rate has steadily climbed in Britain to 21.5 per cent, while in Holland, it is about 10 per cent. In Holland, an epidural is used in only six per cent of deliveries, compared with 24 per cent here.

Post-natal care is vastly different, too. Every new Dutch mother is entitled to a kraamverzorgster, a maternity assistant who stays for up to eight hours a day for eight days to help with the baby. The cost of this service - about £1,000 - is paid by the state or by health insurance.

The overall impression I gained from a recent whistle-stop tour of Amsterdam maternity services was that childbirth is much less medicalised. The Dutch system is based on a highly refined process of risk assessment carried out by the midwife on the client's past and present medical and obstetric history. It is the midwife who acts as gatekeeper, deciding - with reference to the bible that is the Dutch Obstetric Manual - who needs a hospital referral during pregnancy and childbirth.

"It is integral to Dutch culture that pregnancy and birth are normal events that can take place at home, unless complications occur," says Beatrijs Smulders, a midwife who runs a busy group practice in Amsterdam.

"We don't ask people where they want to give birth. In the end, nature decides for you and you don't have a choice. The safest place is where there will be the least intervention, because each intervention carries risks for mother and baby."

The role of the midwife in Holland is very different from that of her British counterpart. Here, most midwives are hospital-based NHS employees. In Holland, they are independent, although many work in group practices.

"We are seen as a separate profession with equal status to a GP or an obstetrician," says Sue Thompson, a British midwife who is working in Amsterdam. "Our judgment is respected."

Dr Maria Pel, a gynaecologist at the Academic Medical Centre in Amsterdam, agrees. "The important thing is for professionals to respect their own limits," she says. "For example, I am not interested in doing a normal vaginal delivery and I will not do it as well as a midwife because I will probably perform an episiotomy [a cut to enlarge the vaginal opening] too early."

Dutch midwives attend when their client in labour calls them. They check that all is well, give advice and aim to return when the woman is 8cm dilated, an approach that can seem shockingly relaxed to those who are not used to it.

Trust between client and midwife is crucial. "There is no pressure on us to listen constantly to the baby's heartbeat, nor is there a need, since we are working with a select group of women whom we know," says Smulders.

"The most important role for the midwife during the birth is to ensure that the woman is not disturbed, so that the physiology of labour can work as well as possible."

Dutch women, unlike many of their British counterparts, do not expect to be given drugs to ease the pain of labour. Epidurals are used only in caesarean deliveries, and gas and air is unknown.

"We know women can handle pain and that they need pain," says Smulders. "And they know that if the pain is abnormal, pethidine will be administered. But midwives cannot give pethidine, so a transfer to hospital will be necessary, which tends to discourage its use."

About a third of women who plan home births are transferred to hospital in labour. Because Holland is a relatively small country with good roads, if an ambulance is necessary, it will arrive swiftly and the journey to hospital will normally take no more than 15 minutes.

British women are anxious that if complications occur during a home birth, they will not be able to reach a hospital in time - fears that are usually unfounded, says Rick Porter, consultant obstetrician at the Royal United Hospitals, Bath.

"The things that go wrong in a vast majority of cases, particularly with first babies, do so slowly or with plenty of warning, so you have time to make your transfer," he says. Bath and its surroundings have one of the highest rates of non-obstetric births in Britain: 34 per cent take place at home or in low-tech, midwife-led community units. "There was a feeling in the Fifties and again in the Seventies and Eighties that birth was dangerous and should be treated as a medical event," says Mr Porter. "People thought that the only way to have a safe birth was surrounded by machines in a hospital, although there wasn't a huge amount of evidence to support this view. Nobody has demonstrated that it is any less safe in a community unit, though they have tried again and again to do so."

Holland has no litigation culture, and the care of brain-damaged children is paid for, not from insurance claims, but by the state. This may be one reason why the Dutch are slower to reach for the scalpel and perform caesareans.

"The cost to a healthcare trust of carrying out 2,000 deliveries a year is about £4 million - the size of one large settlement," says Mr Porter. "These big claims are going to influence the way people think. However, we have not been able to demonstrate that we have fewer brain-injured children as a result of performing more caesareans."

Some British hospitals - notably in Truro and Shrewsbury - have demonstrated that caesarean rates can be kept down without compromising safety. A small number of midwife-led units have embraced the concept of non-managed births in comfortable, low-tech surroundings.

Some midwives do try to persuade clients that babies do not pop out in an hour - as they seem to on television soaps - and that a long and possibly painful labour will do no harm to mother or child.

Perhaps the tide that brought us the medicalisation of childbirth may be slowly turning.

'It gave me a good start'

For the first five days after her second daughter, Flo, was born, Deborah Abrahams stayed in bed, resting and feeding. This luxury was made possible by the presence of a maternity assistant paid for by the state.

Holland has 6,000 kraamverzorgsters, who spend up to eight hours a day for the first eight days with mothers and newborns. They also assist at home births. Their primary postnatal duties are to help with feeding, bathing and other aspects of baby care, but they also do light household chores and look after other children in the family.

"I know I would have been much more tempted to get out of bed and do the washing if I had not had a maternity assistant," says Deborah, who arrived in Amsterdam on a coach from London with her husband, Michael, 13 years ago.

"In the first few days, she looked after me, checking how far my womb had gone down and giving me lots of advice about the baby. She showed me how to bath Flo, using the strange vertical baths they have here. Then she started organising the washing, folding the clothes and making me lunch.

"It gave me a really good start. I was able to get my energy back, so that I could enjoy Flo instead of feeling completely washed out from the birth."

Deborah and Michael's first child, Daisy, was born in hospital after complications in labour. "Having Flo was a totally different experience. It gave me a great feeling of strength. Afterwards, I thought: if I can do that, I can do anything. It was amazing."

12 November 2002: A question of choice? [insurance for caesareans]
19 July 2002: Scarred for life? Not these mums [caesarean birth scars]
29 October 2001: Why more babies are taking the short cut [increase of caesareans]
25 May 2001: Men give birth to a new career [male midwives]

© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2003. Terms & Conditions of reading.
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jasper · 28/01/2003 19:42

My absolute pet hate in the births discussion is when someone compares her first (usually slow,difficult, assisted) birth with her second (usually quicker, less drugs, less intervention, more "natural" )
and concludes that the second "method" is preferable because it was more natural , when I'm willing to bet the vast majority of second and subsequent births are far easier than the first for obvious anatomical and physiological reasons.

lalaa · 28/01/2003 19:42

Jellylegs - oh yes. Can enthusiastically endorse putting your arms around dh's neck, holding your hands together tightly and using your dh's neck as something to hang from while you squat in order to relieve this!!

WideWebWitch · 28/01/2003 20:25

Alibubbles, re that article, how wonderful to have a maternity nurse paid for by the state to help you in those first 8 days! I had my mum, which was great, but what a brilliant idea.

aloha · 28/01/2003 20:35

I would absolutely hate to give birth in Holland (all that scary Northern stoicism 'yah, pain is good, yes?) but want to airlifted there the minute it's all over to have that woman folding my laundry

SueW · 28/01/2003 22:52

Have to smile at the comment on Dutch roads - IME they are a nightmare! I hated every minute of driving on anything but local roads as the traffic drives nose to tail.

Isn't it the second most densely populated coutnry in the world, after Japan?
Love the rest of it though although I believe pupuce has said something on this board before about it not all being as cracked up as it's written in the Brit media. She has rellies voer there IIRC.

pupuce · 28/01/2003 23:21

The Dutch system is free but you can get a postnatal doula in the UK for a few pounds an hour...

Active Birth is also and very much about being ACTIVE in your choices, empowerement,... not jsut in many positions.

Just for those of you interested in more info on epidural.... 20% of them don't work well (as they should) so no guarantee of efficient pain relief

Some women are left with back problem (a minority of course but it DOES happen)

and there are also issues around bonding and breastfeeding associated with epidurals.... not things people like to talk about.... but if many countries have a MUCH lower rate of epidural use it isn't because the tolerate pain better!

Alibubbles · 29/01/2003 09:36

pupuce, can you give me deatils of whoever you trained to be a doula with please. I have had someone contact me asking me for details and I know that you trained more recently than I did. Thanks

Enid · 29/01/2003 11:49

jasper, I know what you mean but I suffered panic attacks after my first birth as it was so horrible and 'intervention-ist', whereas birth number two was painful yes, but was also a very 'empowering' experience (sorry to sound like an old hippy ) and having no drugs meant that I was up and about really quickly with an amazingly alert baby. It wasn't just about being psychologically prepared as the births couldnt have been more different.

Bozza · 29/01/2003 12:29

But Enid I think Jasper's point is that at least part of your "easier" second birth was that your body had already been through it once (and meaning no personal offence to you) most women's bodies do not return to what they were. The exit route has already been prepared.

Although I suppose to have a caesarian followed by a relaxed, uncomplicated second birth (Sofia Ames springs to mind)might be different.

jessi · 29/01/2003 12:50

Pupuce
What issues are there about bonding and breastfeeding + epidurals? I would be really interested to know more.
Thanks

SofiaAmes · 29/01/2003 13:18

I personally found no difference in the bonding/breast feeding aspects of the birth of my ds and dd. Ds was born by c-section preceeded by 5 hours of epidural (waiting for surgeon to appear) while dd was born vaginally with only gas and air.

slug · 29/01/2003 13:39

Ha! I would have loved to have an active labour, unfortunately I had the midwife from hell who looked at my birth plan and said "No you can't" to everything and insisted on strapping me to the bed so she could monitor the heartbeat for the whole bloddy time. Every time I tried to move she just held me down.

jasper · 29/01/2003 14:02

Thanks bozza that is indeed what I meant.
Enid my first two births were like yours too - first scary, sore, interventionist (is that a word??)- still completely wonderful I should add. Second much more "natural"(less intervention) still sore, but like you say, incredibly empowering. In hindsight I could have had #2 and #3 at home. I might then have (eroneously IMO) concluded hospital/interverntion =bad, home/natural= good.
When in fact the truth is first = traumatic,scary, second = much easier , empowering!

I did not have a "bad " first labour because of all the intervention. I had all the intervention because I had a bad labour if you see what I mean. And thank the Lord I did as I might now have a three year old stuck in my birth canal.

bossykate · 29/01/2003 14:29

jasper, i agree. i had a horrendous labour first time round - OP, which tends to involve more interventions. if my second labour is not OP it will be much easier for that reason alone and will probably not require the same degree of intervention, regardless of the physical changes to my body in the interim.

aloha · 29/01/2003 14:33

Oh, Jasper, that's funny!

prufrock · 29/01/2003 22:34

Jasper, I have just tried to relate your comment to my dh through fits of giggles and he smiled weakly - men hey, they just don't have a sense of humour!

jasper · 29/01/2003 23:38

bossykate I think my first was OP too ( my midwife if you are reading this and you recognise me perhaps you could confirm, or was I just a first time woossy?)
Isn't it funny how you can laugh at the most horrendous things in hindsight?

WideWebWitch · 29/01/2003 23:43

Jasper, that is funny!

mears · 29/01/2003 23:44

Yes you were Op - woops, there's the cover blown

mears · 29/01/2003 23:44

OP even - anaemia and wine don't mix

jasper · 30/01/2003 00:08

mears are you anaemic or was I anaemic, drunk and OP???
Has everyone in Ayrshire been drinking tonight

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