Clever Childbirth people, this way please.

[kkdmom]

I have SPD in the lower hips at the back. The hip sockets are the focus of discomfort.

See I want a water birth because I have read somewhere or here that water will support my dodgy hips as well as offer pain relief.

The other half of my 'problem' is that i have some stuck in the mud midwives who don't want to leave their comfort zone so I am fighting to have my birth choice. I can only see my SPD being someone's tack (either MW or consultant) to put me off a WB which ain't happening.

Can someone give me more info? I am under consultant care due acute pre-eclampsia with dd1.

I am shit scared of going back to hospital as I feel like as the last time, i will end up being treated like a piece of meat or have my labour prolonged due to stress, worry and lack of trust as I can't see things going well there the second time around.

I have loads of baggage with my first hospital experience.

Don't laugh starlight. I am not quite willing to freebirth but I think I would rather run for the hills than give birth in hospital again! and though I am laughing at the moment, i still mean it!

As said on the other thread, i am reading the Ina May Gaskin book. It turns out that I know 2 of the founding members of The Farm! Their arm of The Farm is called [www.plenty.org Plenty International]] I just didn't know at the time of knowing them that The Farm also had a birthing center and a world reknown one to boot! Needless to say, I was single and childless so there wasn't much reason for me to know about this.

So when I say, I want to run for the hills, I think Summertown Tennessee will be a great set of hills to run to. More than once I have almost asked DH if he would mind if I took off to the US to have this baby there.

Plenty International

I'm planning a water birth at a CLU as I've got a wonky hip and hope that the water will support me. However, I do have a back-up plan in case the pool is already in use and have borrowed a birthing stool from my NCT antenatal teacher; it looks like a toilet with a luvverly metal collection bowl underneath, but is actually very comfy to sit on Might be worth speaking to your midwife to see if one is available in your labour ward.

Try posting on the Yahoo UK midwifery site:

health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ukmidwifery/

You'll have to join first.

There are loads of luvverly radical midwives who post on that board who will be able to point you in the direction of evidence based information on SPD and waterbirth.

I cannot see the logic of them not allowing you a waterbirth, as long as you are clear about how far apart you can put your legs, and you have someone with you who's willing to help you with this. If I was in your place I'd want to see a physio before the birth to talk through positions etc.

i will be seeing a physio every friday starting from next week sabire. so will remember to learn some positions.

will be in a hydrotherapy pool. i am looking forward to that.

thanks for that link too.

I think the main 'issue' is that no one wants to step o/s their comfort zone. from looking at the stats for the trust women either don't want one, don't think of asking for one or are talked out of them. I think something like 5 home and no waterbirths was for one recent year. It is an economically deprived area and people i have a feeling are generally not well aware of their choices and rights. plus the trust has a relatively new mat unit with only private rooms so there isn't much 'push' to find alternatives? don't know, just speculating here.

It has a good record on one of those set of stats that has been circulated in teh media but as i said before, my nightmare experience makes me dread the idea of ending up there. The nearest alternative hospital is 21 miles away, each way after this one and no MLU in the area.

I feel for you kkdmom.

Our local hospital was the same. They had a birth pool installed on the labour ward and started running waterbirth antenatal classes. Lots of local women wanted waterbirths but they had no idea what they were up against when they actually arrived on the ward: the lost plugs, the taps that apparently didn't run fast enough so that it was 'hardly worth running it dear, it'll take so long', the midwives coming out with comments like 'I'm not bending over that!'.

They have 4700 births a year in this unit. How many babies were born in the water each year? Around 5!. The only person I know who gave birth in it was a very bolshy and huge paediatric nurse who simply refused to get out the pool when they told her to.

18 months ago they opened a birth centre in the same unit which has 3 pools. Most importantly they've also 'installed' a great bunch of midwives who are positive and confident about waterbirth, and these days they have about five births a week in the water! How great is that!

Anyway, all power to your elbow - I hope you get the birth you want.

contact www.aims.org.uk

hospitals are not just supposed to provide the illusion of choice , but a real supported choice.. if someone wants a waterbirth and talks about it at their booking appt, the hospital has 6 months or so to ensure that there are enough midwives trained and competent in waterbirths ...

I have a friend who had a home water birth recently despite having SPD. The birth was fine, but she had to be lifted out of the pool afterwards.

I havent read all responses sorry but HTH. I had SPD as well with DD and had a water homebirth (our own bath tub)and MW's were great about it. with crowning she lifted my leg up high instead of wide to get access.

I also tried accupunture for the SPD symptoms which worked really really well and wish I 'd done it earlier.

I had SPD with both my pg - had waterbirth for my last delivery and can't see why you would be advised against it? My MW was all for it!
As far as I can tell (or rememmber!) it was great, as the water supported me. Didn't make SPD any more or less painful - and I still had the symptoms for a few months Post delivery.
It was a lot easier than my first birth - dont know if that was a psychological thing but I'd definitely have waterbirth if you can.

I've got SPD (front and front of hip sockets) and at my 28-week appt the midwife said there should be no problem with my having a waterbirth in the mlu (unless someone's un both the pools!). They do have a hoist to get people out if necessary, which makes me feel better.

Although my legs splay out fine, just don't go back and forth - that might make a difference?

SPD means symphysis pubis dysfunction. The symphysis pubis is at the front of your pelvis (your pubic bone), so if it's not there, it isn't SPD. Even if it was SPD there is absolutely no reason at all why you can't give birth in water.

I don't see how giving birth in water would make any difference to your SPD (in a negative way ). I think what IS important is the position you birth in. I have had two dry homebirths with SPD, and both times gave birth kneeling over the sofa, which is a position you could easily adopt in a birth pool ( kneeling over the side of the pool ).

If the MW's use your SPD as an excuse not to have a water birth, it will purely be because they are inexperienced and, like you say, not prepared to come out of their comfort zone.

I get spd in pregnancy- pain in my pelvis and dislocating hip sockets. I was offered a water birth but preferred not to in the end.
Last labour I bounced on a birthing ball for the main part of my labour and listened to music and really enjoyed that stage.

I'm annoyed on your behalf that you have to fight tooth and nail and can't feel supported, that is ridiculous in this day and age

I really really hope you start to get the support you need and have a good and positive labour experience this time.

Well I saw the midwife yesterday. She has stated that yes their team have done 'a lot' of home births and there is no reason why i should not have one, barring medical ones. She spoke of the professionalism and experience of the first mw which i largely agree with but quoted for her verbatim what she said after i told her i wanted a hb. I said that with opening remarks like those, there was little left for she and I to discuss but I chose to discuss the medical - and non medical foot dragging she had put forward.

the upshot though, after I stated a few times that i will go to hospital for genuine medical concerns but nothing else and she equivocally restated that I can have my HB/WB.

then of course the kick was: but if it turns out that the unit is short staffed when I go into labour then I will have to come in. Yeah, right!

I told her again that under no circumstances I am going into hospital as long as my pg and labour are risk-free. Staffing issues are not any concerns of mine. It is of management's. She then began to implore me to consider other women who will be in labour at the same time as me.

I said in that case, I am contacting AIMS to voice my concerns. That I am legally entitled to a HB and will refuse to come in. And surely adding another labouring woman to an overstretched staff is not going to serve the interests of anyone, MW and women alike. So, then they will have to hire agency midwives to plug the gap. simple! Because I am not coming in!

I then backed off a bit and said that i am not just standing up for my rights here but everyone's rights. So, wise woman, she has asked me to write the head of midwifery again and request a written guarantee that staffing will be available for me to fulfill my HB.

I ended up telling her of my disastrous labour and how even now the only thing i can compare it to is date rape and for 6 months I had my medical notes but dared not read them and for months after giving birth I felt only a black hole where a memory of labour should be. I was crying by now.

That I prefer to have a C/s over an induction because i feel like labouring in hospital will bring back flashbacks and that it is not fair on me or on any MW looking after me in hospital if i cannot trust her and relax as I will be too defensive about being there and giving them a fair chance.

She knew previously that the post-natal 'help' i had with bfing was atrocious but she wasn't aware that my labour was also a mare so I think she has taken a lot on board. So, my case will be discussed within her team depending on who end up with little old stroppy me when the time comes.

We sat there for over an hour and i felt emotionally drained last night. But felt I fought a good fight.

and thank you if you got throught that whole post.

kkdmom I was really moved by your story.

My experience wasnt nearly as bad as your but I was repeatedly told Id cause my son brain damage if I waited for the cord to stop pulsating before it was cut. I wanted to do that because with my daughter they'd yanked the placenta out before it was ready and did some damage. I also had to fight to stay upright (both births) to deliver. After acquiring chronic pain from my tear with blessing no. 1 I was in mood to risk another!

Does anybody want to do something about these abuses in the system? Im stunned at the number of women who endure significant problems post-labour who keep it secret and I now know its so common. Are we doing womenfolk favours by keeping quiet? Women arent getting the help they need. And do we really need to have a fight pre or during labour for basic assistance? My memory immediately post-labour isnt my son its arguing with the doctor!

If you are feeling mildly militant / feminist let me know.

although I had a relatively good birth experience, with only 1 MW (out of the several I saw) who didn't seem to have much clue - couldn't even tell when my waters had broken FGS! - it does concern me a lot that for people whose profession it is to deliver babies and deal with a huge range of pregnancy issues, there seem to be quite a lot of them who don't seem to have a clue! The number of stories I had heard, prior to having DS, about MWs who patronise, belittle, ignore, and generally piss off pregnant women/new mums, is ridiculous.

Almost every one I knew had something - from being told to go away, of course your waters haven't broken at 38 weeks, come back in 2 weeks (resulting in womb infection because waters HAD broken 2 weeks previously, luckily baby survived); to a friend being patted on the cheek and told "you don't have the face of someone in labour, go home and have a bath" - she did and the contractions got so bad she couldn't get out of the bath again and had to have an ambulance fetch her to the hospital.
Another friend, who had been told to mention that she was a keen horserider when she went into labour, did so, only to be met with "so what?" many hours and a shift change later, no baby yet, new MW and a phonecall from a friend to say not to worry about the horse, new MW almost shouted at my friend - why didn't you tell us you were a horserider?! (apparently it makes a difference because the perineum is tighter or something) Cue extra intervention and baby born.

As I said, all but one of my own MWs were fantastic, can't praise them highly enough - WHERE do these others come from? Are they badly trained, should they be put out to pasture, are they temporary or just sloppy? Normally I am not in favour of "league tables" or customer complaints in the NHS but I think in this case maybe some kind of post-delivery review would be in order.

Sorry, this has turned into a bit of a rant - I was just going to agree with Liberator that something should be done!