What gives a midwife the right to say

[finallypregnant]

You are doing fine without an Epidural?

I don't mean that in a horrible way but it appears that my hospital are not really that responsive when you ask for an epidural.

When my time comes, I'd rather not have one but I have read threads on here where the girls have been turned down an epidural because the midwife says they are doing fine!

Surely, it is not the midwife who makes that call but the mum screaming in agony when TENS, G&S and Pethidine are not working?

Obviously if you are at 8-9 cm and they say it is too late then fair enough.

It's not so much 'not in labour' as 'not in active labour'. I've said it before...labour starting is like starting a car on a cold day.

Like SNSS I very much doubt anyone would support giving a woman an epidural at 2cm: the risks to the woman are too great for one (amongst many) reasons.

I would want to explore why she was experiencing so much pain at 2cm - I'd have alarm bells ringing in my head.

And I haven't seen a mobile epidural either...

I had this, they wanted to start me on a drip and I said that I wanted an epidural if I was having a drip. The midwife looked most unimpressed and started with tales of the anaesthetist being on lunch, it was impossible, blah blah, we'll just get you started and then put one in later (yeah right)...
I ungracefully sat stood my ground and said no epidural, no drip! Funnily enough, the man for the job turned up quick smart!

I had an elective epidural with my 2nd pg and it was a fab 5hr delivery from start to finish. I only got it because otherwise I was going to have an elective and the mws are anti - in fact I had to get as far as the pre-op assessment to get offered what I wanted.

The first time round I had an entirely natural delivery which was not my choice at all and it was a totally hideous experience, haunted me for a long time.

Fundal pressure - WHY?

I agree that refusing women in labour the pain relief they need is barbaric. But also wanted to say to those on here who say they have never seen it; I had a mobile epidural. Bloody great it was too! I couldn't have managed without it. I gave birth in a deep squat with the midwife, having spent the previous 2 hours walking around no problems. I had no further intervention and walked from the delivery room carrying my baby.

I must be the only one who had the opposite then.

With my first child, I went into hospital and got a MW who insisted I have an epidural, I am utterly terrified of needles. I wasn't screaming or shouting or writhing in agony (I wasnt in any pain at that stage, and only there because there was meconium (sp?) in my waters).
The MW went so far as to page the poor anaesthetist, who would have been better attending someone who needed him. When I kept refusing she then asked me what my job was (utterly irrelevant under the circumstances as I wasn't demanding to administer my own epidural), and then she anounced she would not be attending me as I was not co-operating, and then she left me alone in labour... Thankfully the shift changed and I got a wonderful wonderful midwife who listened to me, and I did give birth without an epidural.

I have a needle phobia and I wasn't being difficult, if they'd given me a medical reason I would have suffered epidural but there was no reason for me to be forced to have one.

Starlight my experiences were very similar to yours and reading this thread has made me cry. Hope you are ok (ish) now?
spillage, what alarm bells are ringing if a woman is in so much pain at 2cm? i really don't understand what happened in my labour and 10mnths later just try not to think about it. My husband's view of it is quite simple (that the mws were bitches) (which I agree with)! Although they all became nice as pie when I got to 6cm.

Timewaster, alarm bells would be ringing because...

The woman may be distressed as a result of previous traumatic birth or fear of labour
She may be a precipitate labour about to go off
There may be something pathological happening

I'd talk to her and see what could be done/how I could help/what needs to be done. An epidural should be waaay down the list (if there at all).

I was at 2cm in agony, scared and told I WAS NOT IN LABOUR and gave birth two hours later (nearly on toilet floor). So while I wouldn't say strong painful contractions at 2cm are abnormal, I would say they are skirting around the edges of 'normality'.

A woman at 2cm who is getting regular contractions, coping well with no risk factors, the best place is home. There is no benefit to being in hospital (the opposite in fact).

But we're not talking about that scenario: no-one would send home an obviously distressed woman.

If you were 2 cm and that distressed, my inner alarm bells would be getting louder and I would be taking you very seriously (as would many other MWs am sure). I can't say what I'd do (and I still maintain that epidural would be low on the list), but I wouldn't deny that you were in pain.

I am reluctant to get further involved in any debate (given the earlier views on MWs) so am going to go and cook tea.

I was the opposite and had a loathsome night shift MW who couldn't wait to get me to shut up lying on my back with an epidural. She said "If you're like this at 2cm you are clearly not going to cope; I strongly recommend an epidural" in a derisory tone. Nope, actually I was half an hour from being fully dilated, she just completely failed to assess how quickly things were developing.
This time I have opted for an obstetrician because I was just so disappointed with the MWs! Although the daytime MWs were wonderful, who can choose what time of day you give birth.

I'd never tell a woman that she wasn't in labour even though I know plenty of midwives do/will. And yes as far as hospital policy (and textbooks) goes you ain't in labour till 3-4cm. As someone else mentioned resource restraints rule in an NHS maternity unit.

I'll always be really positive about a 1cm/2cm cervix and tell the women how much their cervix has shortened and moved forward. I'll explain to them that this all needs to happen prior to dilatation but things are looking good, etc. I'll tell her that the best place to be in the latent phase is at home where she should feel more relaxed.

If she feels that she can't cope at home I will fight her corner to get her a bed on the antenatal ward. I can totally empathise with this as prior to me being a m/w I was "not in labour" when contracting (in pain) every 5 mins and "only" 2cm dilated. They tried to send me home and I refused. With hind sight (and expereince) I know I could have been better off at home. But also remember how scared I was.

However I doubt I'd be getting them an epidural.

I think many midwives are just brutalised and desensitized by seeing so many women in pain. Plenty just don't care any more, and a few are actually sadistic.

And studies show there are no adverse effects of giving a mobile epidural at 2cm. There's lots of silly, ignorant scaremongering about pain relief.

.....and which studies would they be, MsDemeanor?.....

Yes, quite a lot of MWs and (obstetricians I should think) would like to see the evidence.

Dammit, I swore to stay away...

Well, what about women who are induced and have guaranteed epidurals from the off as I did?

Mine wasn't mobile I don't think as was kept to the bed (couldn't feel from below belly button to half way down calf) and was topped up by the anaesthetist to get the full whammy, none of the weak pump-it yourself stuff for me . But an hour to an hour and a half after delivering dd I could get off the bed and walk to the bath before being wheeled to the ward and we left the next morning.

I had a MW who refused to give me an epidural because I was apparently only having twinges. I was being induced and it was absolute agony. It was also my 3rd baby so it wasn't as though I didn't know what contractions felt like.

I told her I was ready to push and she basically treated me as though I were a silly little girl - until dd's head popped out.

How can any medical professional involved with childbirth not know about these studies. They aren't even new.

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/20151.php

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3225/is_7_71/ai_n13784792

cat.inist.fr/? aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17614869

www.anesthesiology.org/pt/re/anes/abstract.00000542-200705000-00023.htm;jsessionid=LpDbnS5myH2TjtV9B gvVsBBV2xcG64tJJ5DFG04Bg1D9gQFZt1p1!1976535262!181195629!8091!-1

The problem is most women aren't offered the most up to date form of epidurals, which is shocking. Also many midwives don't listen to women at all.

From personal experience, I can only conclude that some midwives must be sadists!!

My M/w took away my Gas and Air when I got to the pushing stage and I was in complete and utter AGONY! WHY? WHY? WHY?

I will remember the pain until the day I die, and the terrible indignity and the shame that I still feel because I was reduced to begging for it back. (She didn't give it back to me, despite my pleading)

No more V/b's for me - I am booking an elective section with an epidural/spinal block and nice qualified Obstetrician

Some women would respond well to "you're doing fine on G&A".

An epidural requires an anaesthetist and sometimes monitoring and it becomes a different kind of labour.

It didn't work for you but it's not an absolute mean thing to say.

Mine said something similar and I said "yeah yeah" and she said "Oh, god, don't hit me." And then we all laughed.