How do I give birth when I have a complete mistrust of the medical profession?

[MrsTittleMouse]

I'm worried that I'm going to be a second Starlight here (), but I'm pregnant with my second child and due in October and I'm having some serious issues with my next delivery.

Quick synopsis for those I haven't bored senseless already - my first birth was very traumatic, because DD was big and OP and the labour was very long and painful. I managed with very little pain relief in a MLU, but had to be transferred to a CLU after 2 hours of second stage. The consultant laughed at me and my birth choices and bullied me into a ventouse delivery. I was exhausted and used my last strength to insist that I didn't want an episiotomy and that if I did tear that I wanted him to sew me up (having quizzed him on his experience). I ended up being given an epi almost up to my cervix without my consent (DD was not in distress), lied to about it ("only a tiny tear"), and the consultant disappeared leaving the SHO to do the repair. I've had a lot of problems since with the scar.

This time around, I took DH to my CMW appointments for support and told her all about my experiences and she was very supportive. She has offered me an elective CS if I want and offered appointments with people from the MLU and CLU to discuss birth options. But now she is retiring. I have met the new MW once, and she was OK, but doesn't know my history and I'm scared that she won't understand just how difficult I'm finding the prospect of another delivery (VB or CS). And it has really hit home to me that even if she's lovely, and even if the people I meet from the MLU and CLU are lovely, that I could get completely different people while in labour who treat me as badly as I was treated during my first delivery and do anything they want to my body as I'll be too exhausted to stop them.

I have no idea how to get over this, as a homebirth isn't an option for us. DD became suddenly very ill an hour after her delivery (with no warning) and almost died, so we couldn't cope psychologically with being so far away from the paed team. We have the money to go privately (although that money had been ear-marked for a deposit for a house, so it wouldn't be something that we could do without serious thought).

Please help.

Sounds like a very good plan. Let us know how you get on. Good luck

Wading in a little late with my comments but thought I would add my experience with an independent midwife in hospital.

I'd planned a birth in a private birth centre with waterbirth (sounded lovely) and private midwives present. Unfortunately first private midwife to arrive decided I needed to transfer to hospital after I bled a bit (she'd estimated 150ml of blood by the time I was 6cm dilated). At the hospital she wasn't allowed to deliver the baby, only act as a 'doula'. However, my perception of a 'doula' and hers was clearly different. I thought she might provide support - hold a hand, advise me on breathing, get me a glass of water, keep my spirits up and crucially provide me with some 'independent' advice if the midwives/doctors wanted to get out their instruments or start cutting me up. However, she stood back and watched. When I looked for her she seemed to be on the phone/sending text messages (I think she might have been 'on call' as well). Eventually a house officer arrived on the scene during a shift change when I was fully dilated. Noone even told me what was going on or that there was a shift change so I thought there was some sort of emergency happening. They then told me to push but quickly decided on a ventouse delivery. I wasn't even consulted and it seemed my private midwife was involved in the decision but not me! I was in tears when my son was delivered and couldn't understand why it suddenly became necessary. The house officer then cut my umbillical cord (contrary to wishes in birth plan) and insisted on inserting a drip for a 'managed delivery' of placenta. Again contrary to wishes in my birth plan. I protested and asked why we couldn't let the placenta deliver naturally. My private midwife didn't put up a fight so in went the drip. My umbillical cord was then pulled off by the house officer so I had to endure a manual removal of the placenta in the labour room with no epidural. Again, silence from my private midwife!
I think some private midwives may feel their role in hospital is simply to observe. Therefore, you need to be careful to pick someone assertive and confident who is prepared to stand up for you if necessary - whether you chose a midwife or a doula.

What a mess and Im right there with u!

I've had a problem with my scar from kiddie 1 - 4 years old now! So I was also petrified about kiddie 2 and tearing again / making existing problem worse. My hospital had antenatal classes run by a womens physiotherapist and she was fab in terms of advice on positions etc. I was already fairly well clued up post-NCT classes but it really helped. Perhaps another option to doula although that does sound like a good suggestion? Your GP could refer you to one individually - do under the grounds of labour induced incontinence if necessary

I ended up with ventouse for no 2 and my midwife was fab and over-rode the doctors instructions about when to push - Im sure she saved me. In between Ive gone pillar to post looking for someone to sort my pain problems out. This problem is hugely common -there are options for sorting us out when uve tracked down the right person. Finally I think I have found someone who knows what shes doing as opposed to experimenting and wanting to knock out all sensations in my pelvic area (nice man!)

PS would u have wanted to know that this kind of problem was a possibility when u were pregnant first time? Its the silence and lack of sisterhood on this that blows me away.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I agree that this is all very much swept under the carpet. I actually had a great fear of childbirth for most of my life because the women in my family seem to really suffer from epi scars. But everything was referred to in a very oblique way, so I don't really know how bad things were/are. When I became pregnant I initially wanted an elective CS, but was encouraged against it by the MWs, and read up all the natural birth stuff, and hoped that active labour/OFP/hypnobirthing would swing things in my favour. I had as my birth plan that I wouldn't have a instrumental birth or an epi though because of my fear.
In the end, everything that happened was everything that I had feared. Predicting that it was going to happen hasn't made it any easier to deal with.
But there is no way that I could discuss any of this in RL. I just couldn't reveal so much about our sex life to people that we know.
I am still thinking about an independent MW or doula. DH is now on board with the idea, but I am concerned about getting the backs up of the MWs at the MLU, especially if I have already had my birth plan officially signed off by the senior MW. Decisions, decisions.....

Please please get a doula or independent midwife, MrsTM, I really think that sounds like the answer (sorry only read OP)

Good luck

God, it wasn't East Surrey hosp was it?

No, not East Surrey. I was told by my original community midwife this time around that part of the problem was that I delivered at a large teaching hospital. Apparently that's where the largest egos are. Sadly that makes a lot of sense.

St George's? sorry, just interested as in same area myself

MrsTM - sorry to hear about your experience. I would be angry and frightened if I thought professional medics had actually lied to me.

Have you had any official de-brief with staff from the hospital you used?

MrsTittleMouse - I was in exactly the same state of mind earlier in this pregnancy - just thinking about the hospital raised my blood pressure and I was so fucking angry and upset I'd just cry and cry whenever I thought about it.

I've been using hypnobirthing CDs - in particular a VBAC one called 'letting go' about accepting the previous CS and that's really helped. Perhaps you could look at the hospital birth version - there's a lot of focus on each birth being different and being ready to make positive decisions.

Have you considered the option of a domino birth. After being told they weren't available here, I said I wanted a homebirth and was offered one - a named midwife comes out and stays while you labour at home then at an agreed point she will travel to hospital with you and care for you there for delivery - minimising your exposure to docs etc. and also giving you a better chance of a normal delivery - ie you will be more relaxed at home.

I haven't had a debrief - I just don't want to ever go back there. I think that if I ever complained or made a fuss then they would tell me that it was all to save DD (which would be another lie) and it would just be my word against theirs. The junior doctor told me that I had a small tear verbally and it was never put on my notes. My notes are very confusing, as in some parts it refers to an epi, and some a tear. So there is no explanation as to why one was "necessary" or why it was so big. Maybe it was a practice go for the junior and his hand slipped.

We've moved to a different "catchment area", so I can go to a different hospital. Thank heaven, because if I ever set foot in that place again I think I would have a panic attack.

In your position I would insist on an elective CS.

One of my sons died during a botched labour and I would only consider a VBAC for my next birth if it could have been guaranteed that there would be enough capable staff around. Sadly not possible in an over stretched NHS.

DS4 was safely delivered by CS with no drama and I recovered and healed very quickly.

I strongly agree with those advocating independent MWs. I've used them four times over and would do so every time.

MrsTittleMouse - I can understand your anger, but it's not helping you. Is there any way you can talk to someone about it - I'm not saying go for a debrief if you don't want to, but an independent midwife or a doula or even your midwife from the NHS could just listen and it might help?

Or the birth trauma association?

You're right that I do have two problems - the practical one about how to give birth next time, and the psychological one where this pregnancy has made the last delivery very raw again. I'm seeing a counsellor to get over the emotional and psychological issues - the GP referred me. I do think that it would be easier to get over the way that I was treated if I wasn't still suffering now. Our sex life was very important to us; we've lost a lot. DH is very supportive and has pointed out that with a toddler and me pregnant it is highly unlikely that we would be as "active" as we were anyway!

MrsT i had an indy MW for second birth as distrusted nhs staff after 1st birth. had ds2 at home, but fully expected to do so in hospital after induction. mine was deffo not allowed to practice in hospital, but knows the unit and has fully worked out ways of working alongside them. i interviewed a couple til i was happy with her. both dp and i were relaxed thoughout build up to birth knowing someone with proper knowledge of my history and the nhs was going to be on my side. i cou;dn't bear to do it without someone who knew me. that was my main thing. as a bonus, my antenatal care from her was dead easy - she came to the house, far fewer evil trips to clinic, woohoo! and postnatal care was superb from her too.

Sorry, in retrospect I must have sounded harsh and it wasn't intentional

Sounds like you are trying to get your head together. Do hold onto a little bit of that anger though - but turn it into determination to get what you want this time - you can't of course predict what will happen but you can give yourself a real fighting chance of getting a better birth this time

MrsTM - like you I had an absolutely horrific birth with DS due to a complete b*tch of a midwife who may as well have torn up my birth plan - that I could forgive, but the fact she wasnt monitoring me properly (resulting in baby becoming distressed, swallowing meconium and spending first day of his life in special care baby unit when he should NEVER have gone there), ignoring me when I said I was feeling intense pressure in my bum and then the opposite of helpful in the actual birth process (resulting in horrendous tearing as she was telling me to push when wasnt having contractions) I will NEVER forgive. All that, and am a pretty kickass lawyer and the daughter of 2 doctors, so never thought it would happen to me...

Am now pregnant again and (a) have absolutely refused to go back to the same hospital (I made a huge fuss afterwards, there was an enquiry, I got an apology and the b*tch was sent for retraining and monitoring so really hope she doesnt cock up any more births)- am booked into a MLU at another hospital (due to horrific tearing last time round, homebirth not really a safe option for me) and (b) this time round, am determined to make sure my baby is deliverd safely and will be engaging a doula - who helped a couple of my friends in labour and who I know is compatible with me and my husband and will totally fight our corner (as you end up v scared and powerless in labour). I am absolutely positive that what happened with DS should never have happened and will use that horrid experience to make me stronger and ensure it doesnt happen this time round..

Please dont let the awful experience you had last time round shadow your birth experience this time - try to look on it as an opportunity to ensure that you stay in your comfort zone this time and feel empowered in making your voice heard - and best of luck...