Do you need to push in 2nd stage and why?

[ellideb]

Now I was just wondering, I've heard lots of stories where women have said that they didn't need to push at all and the contractions did all the work, and I've heard women saying that they pushed with all of their might, for hours on end and nothing happened.

If women can give birth when they are in a coma, then they won't be pushing will they? So how does it all work? Is pushing something that we shouldn't be doing until we feel the urge in order for it to be effective? Do our bodies have the ability to push the baby out without any physical help from us?

Any comments/advice appreciated as it all confuses me a little bit

Starlight - you're going to think that I'm stalking you, but I had the same thing. I spent the whole time thinking "I am fucking pushing you idiots", but was too polite to tell them to stop. DH did it too, despite warnings beforehand that the only comment that he was to make was that I was doing a fantastic job. He has been thoroughly briefed for this next delivery.
Considering that the MW did an internal when I was pushing (to check that I was pushing in the right way), and I gave myself diarrhea and piles because I pushed so hard, you'd think that they would have go the message that I was sodding pushing.

I just couldn't not push -- my body was doing it anyway even though I was trying not to to begin with. It didn't really take significant conscious pushing (although I did that a bit), just letting whatever the automatic process of pushing was get on with it.

Because, of course, screaming at labouring women works so well. I'm still that the SHO used fundal pressure. I am firmly of the belief that students and SHOs should not be allowed within 10 metres of a labouring woman without constant supervision. I was told that the MLU where I gave birth had a policy of allowing medical students in to watch. I can understand the reasoning behind it, which is that it is good for a medical student to see a birth where the woman isn't stuck in forceps, or attached to a drip. There was no way that I was going to let that happen though. Shame that when I was transferred my consent was either bullied out of me, or just not bothered with.

i wouldnt push with my first the midwife kept tellingme to but was scared that it would hurt too much so i wouldnt

my mum was getting really worried because i wouldnt push, but after a while the midwife said 'her body has strated pushing itself so its only a matter of time before she has to go along with it'

not sure why she was telling me to push when she clearly knew that i had no urge to and baby wasnt in distress at all.

With my first it was only when I was screaming I need to push I need a poo that the MWs came anywhere near me and checked and I was fully dilated (0-10 in about an hour) they had previously told me I was a first timer and would have hours of this, and to lie on the bed with the G&A until morning

DD2 I was 8cms in 20 mins but my waters never went so no urge to push, eventually MWs broke my waters and OMG her head was out within minutes,

I could not have not pushed, it's like the sensation of a giant poo, you know it's coming but heres nothing you can do to stop it.

I'm due again in 4 weeks great article.

Had unbelievable urge to push - nobody shouted at me, but were very encouraging when I was pushing, if you see what I mean - just helping me get through the contraction, mostly. I think it varies really dramatically from one woman to another.

The uterus is a muscle and will push the baby out without any help from you whatsoever. You (usually) get the involuntary urge to push or bear down but that's a secondary thing due to the resultant change in pressure between your abdominal and respiratory diaphragms. It's different to actually physically and conciously pushing.

For what it's worth - I tried to push on top of my uterus doing the work out of intrigue and I found that it made it all slightly less effective - that I was fighting it some how.

I tried not pushing for all of about 30 seconds, but it was unbearable - really really needed to.

I only pushed my third baby out as I was bored! He got as far as the birth canal on his own and I asked the MW if I needed to push or not and she said "If you want to" I had an epidural (boo hiss) so I wasn't being told by my body to push.
With Ds1 he was posterior and turning by himself, so came outsideways. I pushed for 50mns and there is no way he'd have delivered without my 'help'.

It depends on the presentation really, and what you want to do.

Starlight - but they'll know not to mess with you!

I still haven't decided whether to have a doula. If I have an elective section then I think that I won't. If I go super-natural, then I know that DH isn't keen, and I don't want a conflict of interests. DH has promised faithfully that he will personally fight off anyone with forceps or ventouse.

I was told once that in some countries (Grecce) people have been given a general anasthetic, and their bodies have given birth.

With DS! I had an epidural, and was intstructed to push by DH and midwive. I pushed for hours, to no avail, and eventualy had a vontouse delivery.

With DS2 I had no urge to push, untill I gave one big push to deliver him.

With DD I had to push. Nobody could have stopped me, I couldn't have pushed if I didn't need to.

I couldn't agree more with Michael Odent Thankyou for that post tbb.

I've heard of someone who was given a GA for a normal delivery. I posted on another forum if anyone else had had a GA and she was one of the replies.

I highly recommend The Water Birth Book, even if you don't plan on having one because it explains the whole birth process in quite an interesting way.

Jean Sutton was describing how if you are in an upright position or perhaps lying on your left side you don't have to consciously push. Your body's involuntary pushes will do the work. If you are reclining then the outlet is uphill and you will have to consciously aid the pushing process.

Makes sense to me.

Imagine a piece of plumber's pipe with a 45 degree bend in it. Hold it upright and put a ping pong ball in it, it drops out the bottom, right? Lie it on it's side and the ball still has ease of movement. Lie if flat on it's bend and put the ball in, the ball sticks in it because it will need extra help to get up the other side.

She has over 45years mw experience so I think she knows what she's talking about.

When I had dd, I was amazed by my body just pushing. I had no control over it and it was exhausting trying not to. (long story)

4 links about pushing I wish I'd known about:
www.birthinternational.com/diary/archives/000558.html
www.birthpsychology.com/messages/push/push.html
www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/pushing.asp
Birth Without Active Pushing
www.harcourt-international.com/e-books/pdf/465.pdf

If you allow your body to do the work and push the baby out or only push when the urge is overwhelming, is there a smaller likelihood of tears?

i think "pushing" is something of a misnomer, its more an urge to expel if that makes sense? in order not to "push" in my second birth i had to actively counteract the expulsionreflex. dd1 shot out really quickly, i couldnt stop her...

Great links claw, thanks

meant Klaw

You're welcome Ellideb

I just wish I'd come across them before dd was born. Then I might not have asked mw for permission to follow my body's natural urge. I was 'only' 8/9cm and so told not to push. Those links make me think 'what if I'd taken my body's lead and gone with the flow?' It might have been that with gently pushing the final dilation might have happened and I would have birthed my baby myself. As it happens I ended up exhausted with not pushing, the CTG was not perfect and they gave me spinal, episiotemy and used forceps. I'll never know for sure now but often wonder...

I believe the uterus will expel the baby wether or not you actively push too.
Pushing speeds the process up but only if you have the urge.
With DS1 I experienced the rest period after the contractions once full dialation was achieved and was told to push but I didn't have the urge and was enjoying the rest, so didn't.
I wouldn't say I had an urge to push but rather an urge to expel the mass that was making me feel like I was doing the splits and would never walk normally again!

Didn't push with ds1 - my body just did what it needed too. MW kept saying not to push becuase she was worried by how fast it was happening (I wasn't).
With ds2 I ignored all instructions to push until I felt I absolutely had to. He was nearly born on the first one, but had the cord around his neck so disappeared again. MW released him on the second push.

i also didn't want direct pushing, and they told me that if i carried on the way i was that it would take hours, so would i kindly push as hard as i could!