VBAC in Fife, Scotland :-D

[Klaw]

Anyone planning a VBAC in Fife?

check out the award given to two midwives at Forth Park Midwife Led Unit

I quote:

Award for Promoting normal birth sponsored by Bounty

Winning entry: Pamela Cooke, staff midwife, and Doreen Brunton, midwifery sister, Midwife Led Unit, Forth Park Hospital, Kirkcaldy, Fife

Promoting Normality: widening the horizons
A concentrated proactive effort to maximize the opportunity of promoting normal outcomes for all pregnant women in this unit has seen the vaginal birth rate soar to over 1,500 in the past year, up from previous rates of between 800 and 900 a year. Every woman wishing a hospital birth is booked for the Midwife Led Unit, a subtle change of policy which assumes that MLU-care to be the norm. The core staff of highly motivated and skilled midwives are dedicated to providing a fulfilling birthing experience for all women. There is a noticeable increase in women who previously had a Caesarean section now using the service, including using hydrotherapy during labour and waterbirths.

This category was close-run but the judges chose this as the winner because it had the greatest impact on the greatest number of women. The entrants showed how this development was being taken forward and were well aware of the financial issues that they face.

That's really good to hear/read. When I contacted a MLU in Angus to find out if they accepted women having a VBAC the reply was "what is a VBAC?"!! When I explained, they said that they only accept women having 'normal' births! Nice to know it is better in other areas though

[shock} Really Azur, when was that? I am a member of the Angus MSLC and would take this up with the mw at next meeting if this was a recent comment....

Birth In Angus are an award winning set of community mw so I'm a little stunned, which unit in particular? I have my suspicions...

Klaw, I was expecting DS2 so must have been this time last year. Was Arbroath unit - I started labour there with DS1 and knew that they had a birthpool so thought it would have been good but after the useful answers they gave me, I opted for a homebirth instead

I've had several issues with mw's in area though so it might just have been my bad luck!

this is not acceptable! However, I'd like to think that things have changed in the last year but will bring it up at next MSLC meeting, anyway, as I intend to bring up the WBAC issue after I've spoken to the Fife team and found out what criteria they use and what exclusions might apply.

Would you like to contact me off list? I'd love to hear more about your HBAC (I assume)Cut me in half and there is the word VBACtivist running through me!

Also, if you are interested I can let you know when next MSLC meeting is and you can come along The meetings are quarterly and alternate between Montrose, Arbroath and Forfar, last one was Montrose so next will be at Arbroath.

yay for Forth Park

Maybe I should move back home to Kirkcaldy for my VBA2C?

actually Klaw, do you know where I can find information on my hospital's policy on things like VBAC, or should I just contact the hospital directly?

Hi Daisy, apart from BirthChoice UK, which I don't think really gives VBAC stats or info, I'd say the best bet IS to contact the HoM for your area and state your intention to VBA2C or HBA2C and ask for supportive mw to be assigned to your care.

I don't give much of a stuff for their 'policies' as I know they are not there to serve the best interests of the mother to be.

(and yes, move back to Fife, maybe not necessarily Kirkcaldy, as that may be a step too far )

and notice my choice of words 'state', 'intend'... there's no need to 'ask', that just puts you on the back foot, and you do NOT need permission to birth your own baby.

I'm up there with you already Klaw . After my otherwise lovely community MW picked herself off the floor at my telling her I was considering a VBA2C, she said "oooh, they won't let you" to which I replied "they can't make me have a section if I don't want one though, can they?" and told her I'd been doing my research. she just muttered about rupture and risks and wrote something cryptic in my notes!

I completely bottled it when having DD, but am determined to at least have a ToL this time. DH is behind me all the way as well, which is great, considering he will be the one getting fingernails dug into his hands and sworn at

My MW is so good in other areas though. she was instrumental in bringing the baby cafes to Leeds and talked with me at length about BFing DD while I'm still pregnant and tandem feeding once the baby is born, so I was surprised at her attitude. She is in her 50s though, so maybe it's a generational thing, I don't know. I don't think it'll affect the care I get from her thankfully.

Rupture schmupture.

lol

can i jsut say it is right and correct that the risks are brought to the attention of VBACers, but it has to be done accurately, and that is what i have an issue with....

fwiw, i used the line about the risk of cord prolapse being the same as rupture, and cord prolapse being a risk for every mother.....

Ah, I agree we need to know about rupture, but I love the way after one CS you can probably get backing, but two you're going to explode, never mind the risk has been shown to have little to no increase for 2 CS's....

GreenTop Guidelines 45 state that with no other contraindication in an otherwise problem free pg (or words to that effect) a VBA2C is to be supported.

End of.

Lulu, I also use the cord prolapse comparison to point out that we are all not rushed to hospital just in case....

Thanks for that link klaw.

and i'll had the prolapse risk thing to my arsenal

Ah, my fave little green RCOG paper. I do love having it sat in the back of my notes, just incase

(6.2 paragraph 6 btw)

yep, figures I remember seeing for prolapse is about 0.7%, risk for vbac is about 0.35%, including harmless dehiscences, and risk of hysterectomy during CS, that I could find was about 0.7%. So how can they balance all that out and come out with the scaremongering for VBAC that they do?

I asked my cons what the difference is between labouring in labour ward and labouring in MLU in the same hospital? He still said it would not be 'allowed' So I said I'll stay at home next time then He muttered and made comments about against medical opinion...

So this is why I am VERY keen to talk to the Fife MLU mw to get a clearer picture of their VBAC births, so that I can take this info to my local MLU being built attached to hospital (Ninewells), as well as the stand alone units (Angus). They don't just have to listen to us VBACers with our research anymore, they can get it from their peers as well. They'll see we're right!

Klaw - had to laugh at your comment about being cut in half and a VBACtivist in there... Maybe that's why consultants are so againts VBACs - they might miss their chance to look for that VBACtivist!

I would be tempted to go to the next MSLC meeting, I have looked into it before but I had a very bad experience with a SoM and I really couldn't face seeing her again - don't know what I might do to her! Plus, I have very specific opinions and don't really suit going to public meetings

(I did have HBAC btw but not quite what was planned - DS2 stillborn at 28wks - doesn't help stats I know!)

Oh, when is the MLU at ninewells due to be completed? Had heard about it but never known when it would be happening.

Oh, I'm so sorry you lost your little boy...

MLU should be open later this year but I'm not sure when yet. I could maybe try to ask at the next Labour Ward forum meeting (yes, I go to them too )

I am keen to meet the new consultant midwife Honor McGregor, if I recall her name correct, cos I believe one of her tasks is to keep birth normal for VBACers.

Keep an eye out for Keeping Childbirth Natural and Dymanic (KCND), pronounced KIND . It's a Scottish nationwide programme which should do what it says on the tin.

Would you like to contact me? I can pass your email address to the Lay Chairperson of the MSLC and you could get involved as much or as little as you want. There are plenty natural birthers amongst the lay members, I feel a bit out on a limb as only VBACer... We are the ones with first hand experience when it all goes Pete Tong and what it really means to KCND.

I was really surprised to read this! I am booked in at Forth Park and have just been told that all VBACs have to go into the CLU unless they sign ominous legal waivers declining fetal monitoring.

Am really upset as we deliberately booked into Forth Park (even though it's 20 miles further away from us than Ninewells) so we could use the MLU we'd heard so much about...

Now I'm thinking if I'm going to be strapped to a bloody bed covered in wires anyway, I might as well do it closer to home!

I was just reading your thread basilbrush and had to look up this thread to bump it in case Klaw is watching, but you've already done it

It's amazing how they can win awards but still have such poor 'service' for women... Seems to be cleverly worked statistics (but then I am a cynic, especially when it comes to healthcare!)

Good luck with it though and just remember that it's your body and you can refuse whatever you want. I know it's easier said than done when in labour so might be worth considering a doula or at least take someone whose only job will be keeping monitors/IV's away from you

Oh, just in case Klaw sees this, here's a link to basilbrush's thread.

i had both my dds in forth park and i loved it

if you get a midwife called doreen say hi from me. god i loved that woman. and another called liz who told me to "push for fuck sake woman!"

basil, I second the idea of hiring a doula. I'm doing just that so I can optimise my chances of a succesful VBAC.