Landlord against birthing pool at homebirth

[Suzwana]

Hi everyone!

I am planning a homebirth and as per midwives instructions I have informed my letting agency/landlord that there will be gas cylinders (entonox and oxygen) at the property near my due date. My midwife said just to do this so they can update any insurance policies in regards to fire safety.

So they replied and said they hoped I was not renting a birthing pool. I told them I was - and they sent me a massive email stating that the floors on the ground floor in the kitchen/dining room (where I am planning the waterbirth) would not likely bare the weight.

The pool when full is approx 430kg and I have been told this is the same as approx 8-10 adults standing in the kitchen.

They are sure that the wooden floorboards under the tiled flooring will likely flex and cause the tiles to crack.

I am worrying as I want to go ahead as my partner and others feel this is ridiculous - but I don't want to be worrying about this during labour if I go ahead with the pool hire.

Any thoughts and advice would help! Are they just being fussy or are their concerns legitimate?

Thank you.

What the op needs to know is whether the agent is just being OTT or if their concerns have some basis.

Short of arranging a survey, how is she going to assess that given the owner of the property has already outlined the potential safety issue?

Even if the building insurance covered use of birthing pools (and that sounds like a pretty specific exclusion) the landlord and agent would probably fall over themselves to produce the written evidence that they declined to authorise the use of the pool and specifically warned you of the real potential for structural damage if you went ahead. And in those circumstances most buildings insurers would at least consider a recovery action against you as the tenant.

If you generally have a good relationship with your landlord, plan to stay there a while, or even just like having access to your kitchen and dining room, I would really caution against this.

i think since youve told him, now youre a bit stuck. Youd have been better not to say anything.
I had my homebirth on dry land and it was a fantastic experience, despite the pain.

Someone raised this issue when I was pregnant and we did the maths and decided it was ridiculous! Had pools for all three at home - 2 in a Victorian cottage, one in a new build, all fine. To be honest, I do wonder what happens in hospital as the single biggest response to having a home birth was 'what about the mess'. What mess? Can't speak highly enough about my births.

I have had 5 home births in 5 different properties. (not water births though) but have never heard anything about telling landlord! Slightly different as ours were all tied cottages, but it was never mentioned that I should tell the landlord!

Someone mentioned getting legal advice via Shelter. Please tell me this isn’t something Shelter would offer for free? Legal advice for someone wanting a birthing pool?? Because if that’s true then I’m cancelling my standing order.

There's some good advice about this issue here:
www.homebirth.org.uk/water.htm#practical
Can you site the pool near a bay window or a (structural) wall? The floor will be stronger in those areas. The weakest parts of a domestic floor still have to take 150kg per square metre at least.

Not very fair to go against someone else's wishes. They don't want you to have the birth pool, so you should respect this. The property doesn't belong to you ultimately and it would be terrible if you were kicked our days after birth because of breach of contract...

I wouldn't risk a birth pool in my own house. As other posters have pointed out its a hack of a weight in a small area.

4ft in diameter, joists are probably only 1.5ft apart, so depending on exactly where you put it the majority of weight could be on just 2 joists.

Make life easy labour in your bath!

I personally think you are crazy to plan a homebirth. I had a textbook labour and birth in hospital with DC2, then the placenta wouldn’t come away and I haemorrhaged. Within seconds the room was full of people and it was sorted out. If I’d been at home I dread to think what might have happened. Too much can go wrong. You’re safer in hospital imo.

it would be terrible if you were kicked our days after birth because of breach of contract...
There clearly isn't an exclusion on water births in the contract, else they'd have said that rather than what they did say.
They'd have to take her to court for eviction, thry can't just force their way in and change the locks. So even if this were a contract issue, OP wouldn't end up on the streets 2 days pp.

True SleepingStandingUp, but it still wouldn’t be much fun dealing with a pissed off letting agent, a furious landlord and/or financing and arranging repairs to someone else’s property all while trying to establish breastfeeding and recovering from a physically and emotionally draining experience.

For those who are saying the joists should take it, yes, they will. But it sounds like what the landlord is concerned about is the flexing of the floor causing the tiles/grout to crack.

That's a very real possibility.

It's not that the entire floor is going to give way, but it could well be damaged and it would be very expensive to fix if tiles have to be removed and replaced.

I suspect this is a moot point given what you say about gas and air.

But I'm not honestly sure the landlord can object to the birthing pool. You've rented the house, and obviously there will be conditions on what you do, but I can't imagine anyone could enforce a lease saying you may never have gatherings of more than 8-10 adults in your home? It would be absurd. In the same way, I wouldn't think you could realistically tell someone they can't have a birthing pool. If there genuinely is an issue with weight, then unfortunately I would think that is something the landlord must take into account - just as, if you happened to have lots of mail sent to you, the postman might wear out the bell and it might need replacing.

I do see that in context, you may prefer avoiding trouble. But I don't at all understand how it could be legal for the landlord to take any position at all on you using a birthing pool.

As per Midwifes instructions? That sounds odd, not sure about that to be honest. Home Births can be very messy, not surprised your Landlord said no.

You're a midwife insisting on a home birth
Surely you know you can't always have what you want.
So many people I know who wanted home birth and were sent to hospital.
Have you ever had a baby?

but it still wouldn’t be much fun dealing with... of course not, but there's enough actual facts like the above without having to make up scare-mongering nonsense.

As per Midwifes instructions? That sounds odd which bit? She def needs to let the landlord know about the has, we have permanent gas cylinders stored in our house and had to notify him (notify, not ask permission)

I think the landlords concerns about the floor are fair. If it is the ground floor of a house modern houses usually have concrete floors so if it has a suspended wooded floor I am assuming it is an older property?

The wooden floors of old properties can sink and collapse on their own without a birthing pool to help them along.

Christ what a load of bollocks - i’d just get on with what you want to do having had 3 homebirths in flats and all have been absolutely fine. Depends whether you want to stick to health and safety rules or just be pragmatic though.

@SleepingStandingUp I'm on about the Midwife instructing her to have a home birth. They don't instruct anyone but inform the mum 2 be of all available choices.

They cannot tell me I cannot have a home birth anyway legally - as an ex midwife myself I'm aware of this.

But that’s not what they’re saying is it? They aren’t trying to deny you a home birth. They’re just not happy at the use of a birthing pool.

Sorry @Sunflowers211 I'd misinterpreted the comment. My bad

OP, well what instructions would you have given, being as you are an ex midwife.
I don't think any of mine instructed me to do anything.

Look you have been given advice as to the situation with the flooring and your landlord doesn't want you to.
If you go ahead you risk losing your home if LL gets shitty, or you damage a floor that could cost you a lot of money.

I think all the people telling you to go in to hospital don't understand why you are planning for a home birth but with regards to the birth pool I wouldn't put that much weight on a floor that wasn't on a concrete slab. Do you have a bath? Might have to compromise.

Set up your bathroom with some electric candles and hang out in the shower or bath instead (we have instant HWS which is great for water not running out). Candle light is perfect because it is calming but people can still see.

I found the shower great for both back pain and contractions in the front, especially if you have a shower head that can be moved from front to back.

I had this when I had a home birth. I spoke to a structural engineer I knew who just said to keep the birthing pool close to the edge of the room where the joists are secured into the wall and any (theoretical - he was highly doubtful about it) risk would be minimised. Good luck with your birth.