New to board - objective advice required

[bumpstheword]

Hi. I am in a bit of a quandry. I have been given the option of an elective section at 39 weeks and am unsure of whether or not to have it.
I am 37 wks now. My 1st child was 9lb 5oz delivered by emergency section after 24hrs of strong regular contractions i got to 2cm. He remained high - did not engage and was of posterior position and had a huge head!. Iam quite petite 4ft 11.He ended up going in distress and meconium was found when they broke my waters. Lets just say it wasn't a pleasant affair. This babe at the mo is also posterior i have an anterior placenta (i do not believe low), i have no idea of size of this one but am having a scan next week. I feel as though they are pressurising me into trying labour again. They say they will not leave me long (but thats only after i get to 3cm) I am worried it may take me as long as last time. I so much want to enjoy this experience this time. Any one out there had similar experience and go on to have a nice labour with babe in posterior position? Thanks a lot

Just going back to the OP regarding the size of the baby. I would have thought that it would be very unusual for your body to grow a baby that would be too big for you to push out, it just does not make sense. Does it??

I mean we are not cows where there really is a problem with calves being too big for mums to push out, this is because they have been developed and bred to such an extent they have more meat on them for us to eat not that I am a veggie but ffs!!

I think it's entirely possible, Toady. Especially if you marry a man with a big head.

Toady, isn't there though a similar theory for humans now, as our diets have changed so much , and many do not eat as helathily as they maybe could, etc...and that that is part of the reason why we seem to have bigger Babys (in general now) then say 20 years ago?
Uwila...yeah, I suppose you got a point thereBut then BIrht is the whole process, from start of labour to Placenta delivery isn't it...but no, I can see what you are getting at!

Uwila...don't all men have "big heads"...sorry just couldn't resist...

Not in the literal sense.

Seriously I have heard it said that our touble birthing in modern day is a consequence of human evolution -- as we have become more upright intelligent beings our heads have gotten bigger and our hips smaller.

I think that the reson babies are bigger now is becasue pregnant women are today advised not to do such things as drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes. Hence, bigger babies.

Yes could well be true, fortunately my DHs head isn't overely big

Ok, so with DS I went into labour on my own. Had contractions from 9pm Saturday night till 6pm Monday night (the last 24 hours they were 2 - 3 minutes apart) BEFORE I had any intervention (waters broken) ... so 45 hours ... left to be in whatever position I wanted to be in etc etc ...
DS was born 10 hours later by emergency c/section ... due to the fact that I was about to kark it ... DS was fine.
Hmmmmm ...

I know it is possible to have a baby too big for your body ... I have had 2!

I was also told by the consultant that the chances of having a successful VBAC are far higher if during your first labour you were able to dilate ...
Or indeed if your first section was due to certain things - breech baby, twins etc.
I have two friends who had wonderful VBACs - both didn't labour at all for their first pregnancies. One had twins first (complicated lie of the babies so needed elective c/section). Other had breech baby, was advised to have elective c/sections.
With their second pregnancies their chances of labouring successfully were unknown - so both went for VBACs ... all text book wonderful deliveries.
But, as in my case, you laboured for x amount of time, having gone into labour, have a huge baby with even huger head, labour failed to progress at all - then the chances of having a VBAC are considerably reduced. I was told that I had a 20% chance of having a natural birth due to my history. I tried. I failed.

This is probably NOT helping Bumpstheword's decision process ... so please don't get hung up about it BtW ... be open minded. Let yourself go into labour if you can ... but if it ends in a c/section then hey, what does it matter? As long as you have a healthy baby in the end ....

Thanks getting very fed up - not sleeping much at all at the mo, heartburn a real problem and gaviscon aint touching it. Not to mention every time i try to get a kip when the toddler is in bed, some bugger rings! Ask me today and its an elective!- I believe it is more than possible for women to grow babies which are too big for them. All you need really is slight glucose intolerance - very common and very often missed.

Hi Bumps, just thought I'd add my bit. Have read lots of the comments but not all, so apologies if I repeat anything.
Just wanted to say that I had an emergency c-section with dd 7 years ago. Fell pg (not really planned I'm afraid!) with ds when dd was just 2 and immediately said I would NOT labour for 26hours again only to end with c-section, so went for elective c-section. Now ds is 4.5 and I am planning No. 3. and, having a lot of thought about it, have decided that I still feel like I was "robbed" the first time round and that I made a too-hasty decision the 2nd time round. But it turns out that it really isn't easy to convince the health professionals that a VBAC2 is a good idea.
So what I'm trying to say is that if you do decide to have the c-section, just remember that if you ever have more children then the chances are you won't really have a lot of choice the next time round and will probably be rail-roaded into a c-section.
Anyway, I'll stop there. Good luck making your decision and hope it goes well

Just a thought, can you ask for a special scan to measure the size of your pelvis? My friend had one of these, and it turns out her pelvis isn't the right shape/size to give birth naturally, which is why she had a csecton the first time round and this meant she decided to have a c section the second time as well.

To me it seems that there is nowadays a lot of pressure on women to have a 'natural' birth whatever this may be. However, if you then end up with a c/s you seem to be regarded as some sort of failure, women even feel themselves that way. IMO the ONLY thing what really matters is a healthy mum and baby, totally unimportant how you got there as this will depend on many factors. So follow your own feelings, don't feel pressurised in your decision. What about speaking to an independent consultant. I saw a very good one in London, could send his details if you want.

Good luck.

Conni - I personally do not think somebody having a section is a failure although I did feel like that after my 2 sections. The thing that annoys me is that woman are not told the whole truth by the so called professionals, for example "your baby is breech you must have a section" "you are not progressing quickly enough you must have a section" "you have had previous sections so you must have another section".

Woman must know ALL the risks and pros for both, sections and natural birth and be able to make their OWN decision on what they want for THEIR body and baby.

feedmenow - I had a VBAC2. If you go to this website you can find out loads of information and be able to speak to Gina or Debbie who have been helping woman for nearly 20 years. Hope this helps

bumpstheword -- I found Remegel was the only thing to touch my heartburn. Not technically approved, I think, but I used it anyway.

As this has moved on to a more general discussion, I will say that one thing that does make me nervous about VBAC is a bunch of cases around the time I had DS where a c/s was not performed quickly enough for whatever reason with tragic results -- someone I know due a couple of days after me had a DD with massive brain damage who is much loved (and absolutely gorgeous!) as she is but would have had no problems if delivered 20 mins earlier, bubble99's Bo, and a couple of cases in the papers at the same time (at least one of which was an attempted VBAC).

So that makes me nervous about VBAC the whole "what if I can't deliver DC2 vaginally but the hospital delays doing a c/s and something goes wrong?" worry. And then that makes me nervous because I think "If I'm feeling nervous about the VBAC, will that by itself reduce my chances of its succeeding?". And round in circles I go. It does my head in, and I'm not even pregnant again yet! Anyway, that's another reason for the doula/independent midwife plan I think I am going to need a consistent knowledgeable presence to help me with the mental side of things.

And pupuce I think another aspect of so many women wondering if they should have a VBAC or not, though, is that they've had one c/s and it wasn't too bad it's the known/unknown thing. I know that in my case the worst thing about my c/s was that I'd been in labour (not sleeping and throwing up repeatedly) for 40 hours before it happened and was knackered (well, that probably comes second in the "worst" stakes to the getting whooping cough immediately afterwards, which wasn't a great idea). When I think about a potential elective c/s I can't help but think about my previous c/s with all the worst bits taken away, which given that I think of that birth as actually pretty positive all round means that a hypothetical elective c/s begins to seem really really positive. And then setting that against the unknown of a VBAC... I can entirely see why anyone whose first c/s wasn't a completely hideous experience would at the very least dither over the best course of action.

My response is virtually an echo of lemonaid's. I think one of the only bad things about my c-section recovery was the fact that I had been in labor so long beforehand. Saying they will only consider a section after you get to 3 cm when it took 24 hours to get to 2 cm last time is not reassuring, imo. I am 26 weeks pg with baby #2 and I told them from the beginning that it would have to be an elective, I would not consider a VBAC under any circumstances. Of course, I'm in the US so there wasn't any pressure about having a trial of labor. Uwila is a good one to tell you how to go about working with the NHS on electives.

On the other hand, I know someone in Oklahoma who had her first by c/s, was a perfect candidate for VBAC but in Oklahoma you are not allowed to have a VBAC at all any more (or at least, all licenced medical professionals have been told they are not allowed to assist with them in any way). So she had to schedule a second c/s and then when she went into labour naturally a week or so beforehand had to have a c/s even though the labour was progressing beeeeautifully. She was very about that.

It should be what the mum wants! The more threads I read on this subject, the more I believe that. A friend of mine had a baby at Kingston hospital on Tuesday. It was her first baby and she was induced because there was too much fluid around the baby (is that a reason to induce?). The midwives refused her an epidural. Told her she could cope without it. She had to really demand the thing. She did get it, but not as soon as she wanted it. What gives midwives (or any other person) the right to tell the mum she doesn't need an epidural and she can just cope?

Maternal preference!!!!

If anyone wants to get an elective on the NHS, you basically need to choose the right hospital and demand it from the get go. Put it all over your notes, and don't budge.

within reason

Thasnks so much for your help ladies. You really all are wonderful on here. I have sought some independant extremely qualified advice and am told my chances of vbac are just less that 50%. I booked in to see the midwife yesterday (waterworks problems) and she is not telling me the top part of the head is engaged. I can feel it to. Does this increase my chances? Anyone know?

I'm with Uwila, think it should be up to the Mum (unless Mum happens to want something that clearly endangers the baby/herself, in which case something is amiss).

Bumps, I'm glad the head of your baby has engaged - I do think that probably improves your chances, but hopefully one of the Truly Knowledgeable Ones will be along shortly to say for sure.

Uwila, I'm curious to know what others say about your friend's experience....I was induced to high bp with dd1, at 39+ weeks, but then went on to c/s because of excess fluid. Baby's head had disengaged, cervix still tightly shut, and even the midwives agreed she would never come out any other way. I didn't trust my OB (because he had clearly wanted me to have a section since the day he met me, on the grounds that I was over 40) but I did trust the midwives. But certainly not ALL cases of excess fluid (polyhydramnios) end in sections - that I'm sure of.

oops, just realized she was induced - not pushed into a section. My mistake! Yes, if baby's head floats away from cervix due to fluid, I believe induction is usual because the pressure of the head on the cervix is part of what gets labour started normally. At least, thats what I was told.