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Childbirth

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Original poster

Can I refuse forceps?

100 replies

pennycat · 18/07/2006 11:59

Hi a newbie here, can you help me please as have appointment tomorrow at hospital to talk to an anaethetist (sp?) re my birth. I'm 35 weeks with first baby, have low platelet count so can't have an epidural which was something that I may have wanted to consider. Also can't use pethadine as allergic to it. If necessary can I refuse forceps/ventouse as I don't think I will have enough pain relief with G&A to cope and I am terrified of that outcome. Obviously I'm not thrilled about idea if C-section under general too but think it frightens me less.

Sorry to waffle on but can anyone tell me if you are allowed to refuse and at what point I should do that?

Many thanks guys..this website is a godsend!
Pennycat

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expatinscotland · 18/07/2006 15:06

i've had it arguing over petty stuff and snittyness on this board today. think the heat's got to everyone.

hope you found the answers you're looking for, pennycat. the advice about joining hte antenatal threads is great, too!

oliveoil · 18/07/2006 15:10

can't see anything wrong with this thread tbh, go and lie down in a cool room

x

cye · 18/07/2006 15:20

Hi Pennycat.
I had a real 'thing' about forceps as a friend had frightened me to death with her birth story (even though said friend will say just about anything for effect and is a born storyteller! why i didn't just laugh it off i don't know!). aaaanyway, when i got to hosp and they said they were going to induce me i put up a real fight - because i knew induced meant forceps more likely. in short i pretty much wanted them to promise not to come anywhere near me with forceps and to their credit, they listened and said they'd only use them as a last resort. in the end they used ventouse but didn't need it and i pushed dd out. BUT things i know now i wish i'd known then

  1. you really do need to be flexible. giving birth isn't something you can do the 'right' or 'wrong' way. you might have an ideal in your head but you really do need to be able to give it up in the face of medical advice. i so wish i hadn't wasted my energy and tears fighting medical staff who knew what they were doing and were right! boy did i have to eat humble pie the next day!
  2. by the time it comes to the forceps (or not) stage you're so past caring! or at least i was. they could have sent james herriot up there for all i cared. i would just have moo'd softly to myself.
  3. what's important about birth is the outcome. by then end, and even now, i can honestly say dd's birth was fine, even though is was not at all as i'd planned (not ANY of it). It didn't matter. i really wish i'd been more relaxed about the whole thing and not got myself so stressed. this is just my opinion, of course. i wish you lots of luck for your experience. stay positive. despite having loads of intervention and not being able to move i didn't have a single stitch and felt right as rain straight after birth. didn't need as much as a paracetamol. if someone had told me that as they put the drip in i'd have spat in their eye for being a dirty liar. sorry this is so long but i know how i felt about forceps and i wish i'd had a different point of view to consider. Good luck!
LeahE · 18/07/2006 17:08

Oooh! Wonder if I could put James Herriot in my next birth plan?

His being dead might be a negative factor, admittedly...

MumtoBen · 18/07/2006 19:23

I had a failed ventouse then a forceps delivery without an epidural. I am sorry to tell you that it was horrific. But the forceps were much more painful than the ventouse. And I was very close to having a c-section anyway. I would have preferred a c-section to the delivery I had.

As they did not comply with the guidelines around use of ventouse / forceps it put my baby in an incubator for 10 days and it has taken me 16 months to recover.

I have had 3 friends who also had forceps deliveries and they all had epidurals. It might be worth asking the anaesthetist if the hospital's policy is to carry out forceps under epidural or not.

You can refuse it, but in practice it might not be so easy a choice if the head is nearly out. I was told by a consultant after the birth that if they then do a c-section they have to pull the baby all the way back up, which is also not great.

It might be worth asking the hospital what other methods of pain relief are available - like a water pool or TENS machine.

I hope you have a straightforward birth and it does not end up in a way you don't want.

willow2 · 18/07/2006 19:26

expatinscotland - 4th degree tears? How do you think the majority of women end up with them? One word.

FORCEPS.

kittywits · 18/07/2006 20:09

Is that really true?

expatinscotland · 18/07/2006 20:12

I NEVER wrote that a majority of women end up with them, people! FGS!

I wrote that 'some' women get them - there are even some on here - perhaps it might have been better to try to deliver them w/forceps or offer them a csection??

FFS, I HAD A FORCEPS DELIVERY! At the time, I wouldn't have cared if I had csection or forceps, I just wanted it all to be over.

But it wasn't the end of the world, my lady is still intact, and I had another baby w/no assistance.

doobydoo · 18/07/2006 20:12

Seen forceps.ventouse and c/section when nurse training.Have had a 'normal'delivery with an episiotomy and have also had a section when ds's head was stuck.Would go for a section everytime.

kittywits · 18/07/2006 20:14

If they give an epsiotomy for forceps why do you get a 4th degree tear?

expatinscotland · 18/07/2006 20:16

YOU DON'T! PLEASE READ THE POST! ALL IT SAYS IS THAT SOME WOMEN GET 4TH DEGREE TEARS IN LABOUR. Not, 'it's from forceps'. It seems to me that maybe some people should be offered forceps or csections but aren't and they sustain massive damage.

You do get an episiotomy w/forceps and stitches. I won't lie, it's not the most pleasant thing in the world.

But it's probably better than the alternative.

expatinscotland · 18/07/2006 20:17

TBH, dooby, if I'd been offered a csection w/DD1, I'd have taken it. Then again, if the consultant had offered to put me out of my misery, I'd have gone for that, too.

doobydoo · 18/07/2006 20:22

Yep Expat ikwym.If i ever have another i want to be organised and shall book a section and not listen to anyone telling me to 'give vaginal delivery a go'.I know my limits and i know the limits of midwives etc.I just want it to be calm.
I have to wait a week or so before i can take a preg test

kittywits · 18/07/2006 20:25

Sorry expat, so what you mean is that if a birth is going badly and the baby gets stuck, is in a bad position then the woman can sustain a horrendous tear if forceps aren't used to extract babe quickly? Or were you mentioning the tear only in relation to itself? Just wondered what could happen to a woman to cause a 4th degree that's all!

expatinscotland · 18/07/2006 20:28

There are some threads on here from women who have had 4th degree tears and have had to have surgery to repair them.

In my case, my baby was back to back and had her hand way up by her head. I dilated fully and she came down some, but not as much as she needed to deliver.

I had been up 32 hours and in labour for 24 and pushing for 2 hours. I was so exhausted I didn't care if I died. So they called the consultant in and she went for the forceps. But if she'd said csection I'd have gone for that.

doobydoo · 18/07/2006 20:29

Kittywits..have witnessed numerous forceps deliveries i can quite see how 4th degree tears would happen.

expatinscotland · 18/07/2006 20:31

I didn't know there was such a thing until I found MN.

kittywits · 18/07/2006 20:34

No, it doesn't bear thinking about, sorry you had such a bad time

willow2 · 18/07/2006 20:49

Ok, to quantify my post. Expat - you said that you would rather have forceps than a 4th degree tear. In fact, the use of forceps greatly increases the risk of a 4th degree tear. Staff at St. Marks hospital - which specialises in treating women who have suffered similarly - are advised to choose a c-section over forceps for just that reason. Michael Odent believes that forceps belong in museums. Various hospitals now no longer use forceps because of the many associated risks. That said, if your baby is stuck and there isn't time for a c-section, then forceps are a viable option - but only in those circumstances IMO. However, if I remember correctly, under NICE guidelines you have to be prepped as though for a c-section before forceps can be used. So you might as well have the section IMO.

I think the bloody things should be melted down and turned into door stops.

expatinscotland · 18/07/2006 20:54

K, whatever! I wasn't offered a csection. Or a lethal injection. I was just offered forceps.
I already had an epidural maxed out and was in a suite that was set up for surgery if need be.

My fanny is still intact. Wasn't the end of the world, but if OP thinks she'd rather a csection under GA, as she cannot have an epidural or spinal, that is indeed her call.

Had another baby w/no assistance at all, almost didn't make it to hospital.

FWIW, the graze I got having her still hurts 7 months later, whereas the episiotomy didn't.

willow2 · 18/07/2006 20:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Marina · 18/07/2006 21:01

willow
I remember your posts on this from before XXX

expatinscotland · 18/07/2006 21:02

K, willow, now you need a cold flannel.

I am PARPING myself off this b/c this wasn't meant to be a godddamned argument and a 'yeah, forceps are the way to go!' thread.

Goodbye now.

willow2 · 18/07/2006 21:05

I'm not having an argument. It's just that at certain times - and this is one of them - I feel obliged to shed some light on the unenlightened.

FrannyandZooey · 18/07/2006 21:12

Pennycat, I have struggled to pick my way through this thread to understand all the alternatives (too HOT!) but I just wanted to add a comment. I agree totally with the posters who said try to keep an open mind before you go in. Obviously with medical issues you have fewer choices, but as for feeling like you won't be able to cope mentally or physically with pain or fear, you may be surprised. The body while giving birth is capable of some amazing things and you may find your first instincts as to what you want, while sitting at home mulling it over peacefully, are entirely different to what you need / can cope with while in labour.

Wishing you all the best, whatever you choose.