Discovery Health - Baby Story... EPIDURALS ALL ROUND!!

[M2T]

I have confessed to being slightly obsessed with the afore mentioned Maternity and Labour program... On Discovery Health there is a British program and an American one.

Why are American woman made to lie on there back whilst in labour, it looks awful!

And:

Is it just me or does it seem standard for an American woman to have an epidural?? And it seems to me that a C-section is offered if the woman feels too tired to carry on with the rest of the labour!!
One woman had got to 9'5 cm dilated, but the Doctor offered her a C-section coz she was getting tired. As far as I could tell there was NO medical reason why she should have a section. I dare say there are a lot of women that would say yes to a C section when they had been in labour for 12 hours and were 9cm dilated, but is it really the best for Mum or Baby???

Have I got it all wrong? Maybe some of you American Mums can set me straight.

That last post wasn't a criticism of you Mears, you posted while I was writing! However, I have read that a mobile epidural takes 3-5 minutes to become effective, and my spinal block, which is delivered in the same way didn't take 20minutes to set up.
Only 28% of hospitals in Wales offer a 24 hour epidural service so it's not true to say that epidurals are easy to get.
Surely, though, we are talking here about imposign pain on woman against their will if we are saying women shouldn't be 'allowed' epidurals or sections? It's barbaric IMO!

I want to say again, that even though I would rather put my head in a mangle, I think that the choices for homebirth, waterbirth etc etc should be choices available to women. But so should proper pain relief etc.

Our unit does not do mobile epidurals - they have a downside in that they wear off really quickly so you need to be topped up by the anaesthetist ASAP.
A spinal anaesthetic is local anaesthetic injected deeper into the spine than an epidural. The spinal goes into the space that is past the epidural space causing immediate analgesia/paralysis. The epidural involves a fine catheter being fed into the epidural space and being left there for top-ups. The pain releaving effect is not as profound as a spinaland takes longer to be effective. With an epidural you should still be able to move around the bed and use your legs. With a spinal you cannot raise your legs off the bed.

Poor Dutch women... only 8% of them have epidurals !
Lucky French women 60% use them !

Chilbirth is painful... be it labour or post-op for a section (and yes for that you get loads of morphine if you need it).

You (Aloha) and I have debated this topic many times... we both know we won't change each other's mind... I work with many women, some go for electives, some have to fight for VBACs and plenty have labours without any painrelief and are really chuffed about that - so there are all sorts ! As long as you feel you are given the info and support you need then great !

By the way, I never find your posts criticising me Aloha - feel free to crticise away if need be

If we come back to the original topic... have you noticed how all the American women labour with full make up AND lipstick !!!!

And on those shows they do have mobile epidurals and everytime I've seen it the mum request a full epidural not long after that as she doesn't like the pain that she can still feel.

I had a mobile epidural and had a 'top up' pressie thing. The anaethatist did come in once again during the day I think (still quite bleary) so maybe he did something then. I have no idea how long it took to work either - maybne that pethidine affected me more than I thought it had

O had to have an extra bid top up prior to my c section too - for failure to progress, only got to 2cm dilated despite lots of induction (3 x gel, drip, attempted rupture of membranes, etc.)

Actually Pupuce, I always thought the French way - epidurals and a nice glass of wine afterwards - was the way to go! I think you do a great service for the women who very much want the kind of birth you help them get. I'm just standing up for us high-tech girls who prefer a rather different approach. And I should be writing about fertility and I've just realised I should be interviewing a lovely mumsnetter who has volunteered to help me...aargh! My memory is shite. Probably had it surgically removed with along with ds... Sorry!

Pupuce - I wore makeup to have my ds!! They kept telling me to take it off but my dh had a camera...

This is my last post and I am going away now...

Make-up! By the third day it had worn off, and if Dh had gotton a camera out he'd have suffered big time

Anyone watched Babes in the Wood - the new birth prog on Discovery Health based around a unit in the New Forest? It's supposed to show something a bit different to the usual baby progs I believe.

I blxxdy hope so.... why can't we see intervention free births - they are not THAT RARE !

There used to be one on Discovery Health that was mainly 'mormal' births. I remember from when I was pregnant, and so many of the births were really straight forward. It was always follwed by another one - American - where most had intervention of some kind. Very baffling at the time for a heavily pregnant first time mum.

i didnt have time for pain relief with dd2, and i actually preferred it to my long drawn out medically intervered labour of my 1st child. even if it did hurt like hell!!!!

I've posted this before on another thread but...

I always remember watching an episode of Baby story and the woman in labour had her husband, mother,mother in law, aunt, sister, cousin and friend all in the the delivery room with her and they were all having a look as she was delivering.
Is it really necassary to have practically your entire extended family in the room with you? I certainly wouldn't want all those people looking at me in that position but maybe that's just me.

I've seen other episodes where people wait out in a waiting room. I remember when I was pregnant and doing the labour ward tour we were told under NO circumstances would anyone apart from your birthing partner(s),at the most 2 people, be allowed in the delivery room with you and there was no where for anyone to hang about outside either.

Maybe because Americans have to pay for their deliveries they have a right to choose who is with them at the time. And Money I think is also the reason why so many of them have c-sections the Dr's get more money if they do a section.

On the subject of epidurals I had diamorphine which made me sleep for hours and vomit when I woke up. then I had an epidural which made me sleep and vomit practically every hour on the hour. After reading what Mears posted about blood pressure dropping and making you vomit it all suddenly makes sense. I have very low blood pressure anyway so maybe that can be an explanation towards why I was so ill with it. I didn't know that with an epidural your blood pressure dropped or that it could make you sick. Nobody told me that while I was pregnant or before they gave me it.

I also ended up with a forceps delivery, due to position of the baby and I think also because of the epidural, and remember a midwife telling me after the birth never to do drugs as all I will do is sleep, not that I was planning to run out and start taking drugs anyway you understand.

Somebody mentioned down this thread about the UK someday equalling the US Caesarian rate of 25%...DD1 was born in New York in 1982, at a teaching hospital admittedly (top-flight neo-natal intensive care unit, emergency helicopter pad on roof like in ER) but the C Section rate the week we were in was SEVENTY FIVE PER CENT!!!!

Sharp intake of breath all round.

The best Birth Day I ever saw was one of those His, Hers and Theirs, also the mum was adopted and had found her birth mother, so they had all the kids in the delivery room (5 or 6, one son wielding the camcorder - eurgh) plus THREE grandmothers (as well as sisters, neighbours, window cleaner, florist, video delivery man etc.)

You guys do realize that you're watching a TV program, right?

I think the most telling thing for me was that everyone I knew in the US who had had a baby was happy with the birth (although there were a couple of long, drawn out labours, etc, I mean with the care before and after). And, yes, I've heard of Misconceptions --- can I just say that that is one woman's experiences?

It might be medicalized in the US simply because we're not so wrapped up in the whole "good birth" (broadly speaking as more natural = more good) idea. Not to say that British women are, but it seems much more necessary in the UK to believe in the "good birth" thing, simply because the NHS care can be so appalling. (Dirty hospitals? Infections from cleaning up after birth? Sheesh, no wonder home birth is so big!)

Motherinferior, sorry, meant to say that you are completely right (about the un- or under-insured people's health levels) -- except that, horribly, it's not just the poor, it's many many people who don't have a full time job or are just starting out or who have retired. But that's a whole other topic! One that deserves discussion, but gets far too little in the US.

Go Howard Dean!

JJ - My cousin is an orthopedic surgeon in New England and she had labours from hell.... the first one was with NO anesthetist around ! again it is one story.

However I disagree 100% with your interpretation of why Brits feel "good births" are important. And I do not think crap NHS makes high home birth rate... HB rate is 2% anyway .... it is much higher in Australia and even higher in Holland (nearly 50%).
I do not feel Mumsnet is representative of the whole of the UK. There are far more homebirthers/waterbirthers on here than national average... so presumably more women here have a different view of what they see as a good birth. You have plenty of people in the US who also feel the whole system is too medicalised... why do you think there are over 5000 doulas in the US? There are more and more midwives too with some quite radical ones too. Have you heard of The Farm ?

Generally the US is quite different from Europe in its view of health broadly speaking (I speak as a Canadian living in the UK) -

I agree, the UK home birth rate isn't high - I think it's still around 2%. Until the 50's (IIRC, may have been later, 60's?) home birth accounted for 98% of all UK births - now 98% of all births are in hospital, so there's been a complete reversal.

JJ, I think it's an interesting question: why is childbirth so medicalised in the States? Litigation culture? I know that even here Ob/gyns/independent midwives insurance is high compared to other members of the medical profession. Money? Women's own beliefs about childbirth? (if it is this, then why they have these beliefs is an interesting question too).

Whilst I agree that Misconceptions is one woman's experience, she does cover quite a lot of ground about American childbirth and how it is generally medicalised and managed- it's not all subjective stuff. And I don't see why women shouldn't be wrapped up in the "good birth" thing - a good birth being, IMO, one that has a good outcome for mother and baby and allows women real, valid choices (whether that's heavy drugs and a lumbar puncture or gas and air at home). And by real I mean supported informed choice rather than "well, you can try at home dear but will you be able to live with yourself if your baby dies?". I don't think women are 'wrapped up' in it here because the NHS is so bad, I think they are (if they are) because giving birth is a big deal and most women have definite ideas about how they'd like it to go.

Also agree sweetypie that mumsnet isn't representative of UK mothers, not at all.

WWW agree with you on the good birth thing. When pregnant with my first(dd) I wanted as little intervention as possible during the birth, I had this rosy view of how things would be. Infact the birth was horrendous. 11 days overdue, induction, one of them drip things, water broke for more than 24 hours - infection, punctured spinal membrane from failed epdiural, failed ventouse and forceps, GA and emergency section, baby in SCBU and me laid on my back for more than 24 hours after due to spinal fluid imbalance. Plus recovery in hospital took about 7 days but alot longer at home I hope my birth was unusual and doesnt happen to many people.

My second (ds) I chose an elcetive section and I didnt feel bad about it at all. It was a good birth for me but anything would have been an imrovement on the first time anyway

I do think there is much to emphasis put on the 'perfect' birth and I am happy that people get what they want. It is the most natural thing for a woman to give birth to her child vaginally without pain releif but some women this isnt possible

My God though I wouldnt want my in laws or my own parents peering up my nethers either nor would I want to look up theirs

Great thread M2T - I am also obsessed with all those maternity and labour programs. I agree that if their portrayal of American labours and births are accurate then they have a weird set up - first little contraction and they whip out the hospital gown, wire them up, lie them flat and start pumping them full of drugs while dad to be phones extended family to "fly down" and have a look at her privates...

However, saying all that, I am particularly addicted to the Baby Whisperer (Tracey Hogg?) and have found some of her approaches and ideas really interesting - enough to check out her website. Has anyone else bought her books/put her ideas into practise? I am really tempted but would value other opinions before potentially wasting my cash (bought GF last time and was much too prescriptive for me but I like the idea of routine).

I had a great NHS natural non-intervention birth with my 1st baby. My waters broke at 11.30pm on Weds and DD was born at 2.31am on Thurs, just 3 hours later. Yes it was agony but the only thing that helped me was walking around (admittedly I was walking like a screaming John Wayne). When I was first admitted to the delivery suite at midnight and 3cm, I was put on a monitor which I had to lie down for. I can honestly say that was the most uncomfortable part of my labour. The contractions seemed far worse and less manageable, I also had a habit of going faint whenever I lay on my back due to DD pressing on blood vessels to brain !

Water was ok but didn't really do much for pain relief. I think that it would have helped more if I had experienced a more gradual pain build up. As it was, my labour was very short but it was also VERY intense (which apparently is common in short labours). By the time I was shouting for an epidural I was told that probably meant that I was in Transition and therefore almost ready to push so it would be too late for the epidural anyway. I couldn't believe it had been so quick and so begged MW to check me. She was right and I was 8cm, I thought it'd take a while for the other 2 so I made her call the anaesthatist (sp) and insert the drip into my hand. I was pushing 20 mins later. My DD was crowning as the anaesthatist put his head around the door. Me being polite to the last said "Sorry to have wasted your time" !!!

All in all the birth was wonderful we had minimum intervention. The MW just popped into the room every 30 mins or so and it was just me and DH in the room with the lights dimmed. Once DD was born the MW gave her to me and showed DH around the placenta (his request!), did a quick Apgar and then left us to it. In fact we had to call her back in so that I could be moved onto the ward, 2 hours later ! It was simply fab and I wouldn't hesitate to go for another non-intervention birth.

Discovery does show a really skewed view of birth though. I always wanted an intervention-free birth but thanks to them I was sure that when I got to it I wouldn't be able to manage it, so I kept an open mind (always good anyway). When it actually got to it, although I was in labour all day (the people who invented TENS machines and Entonox are wonderful), dd just popped out after a few pushes. But, and I'm really sorry to be boring, got to tell you the funniest thing about my labour (which was also the most painful part).

I'd only let the mw check how far I'd dilated twice, when I was 3cm and then 7cm then I told her I didn't like it so she couldn't. As I'd had a really long labour they didn't expect a quick progression but suddenly I decided a wanted to push, so they had to move me upstairs from the pre-natal ward to the delivery suite. I couldn't sit down properly, only lie, stand or lean on the bed so she couldn't use a wheelchair and I had to walk (to the lift). That was SO painful, trying to walk while wanting to push!!!! I got almost to the lift and then I had to stop and was groaning (or screaming, whatever!) really loudly! And the mw was already in the lift holding it open so there was just my dh leaning over me while I was making loads of weird noises! Loads of people came past giving us really weird looks and if it hadn't been the maternity wing I reckon dh would have got arrested!!!! Lol!!!