Advice on 7 Year old erratic mental health

[Holland82]

Currently in a bit of turmoil with my 7 year old.

Diagnosed ASD and school not supporting as academically achieving and said she seems fine in school.
Over the years she has increasingly shown anxiety with the world but because of being an expert at masking, even I didn't quite realise just how anxious she was. Last couple of months she has been showing more erratic behaviour such as violent outbursts, extreme meltdowns, very low moods mixed in with hyperactivity and then times when she is her normal self.
It has also been almost impossible to get her into school the last couple of month with her being violent towards me, screaming and shouting, and refusing to even go onto school grounds. It can take up to 4 teachers to coax her in and even forcibly get her in the gate. They always say she is fine and normal once she gets in despite me raising my concerns with her decline in her mental health.

She is currently self harming at school, mornings of school and the evenings before school. She says she feels scared and worried all the time and has expressed on several occassions she wishes she was dead.

The school know this and still refuse to acknowledge that she needs support in school. The school FLO has tried to befriend her and introduce her to the pastoral care team where they said they woukd try to meet with her weekly but are busy so won't be for a while. Problem is that my DD just won't talk to anyone and always says everything is fine as masks so much outside of the home.
It is getting to the point where I am being made to feel like I am neurotic and over the top or it is a parenting issue so tend not to engage too much with the school as seems pointless and feel I won't be believed.

Last week while getting ready for bed, DD became extremely distressed and was shouting hysterically for me to come upstairs. When I went up she was very distressed and crying saying someone was talking to her and it was scaring her.
She calmed down and I sent her into school the next day as said she hadn't had anymore occasions of hearing voices so thought it was just her imagination.
However it has just happened again and I was in the room with her when she became distressed again and was saying the man was talking to her again and it was coming from the TV. The TV was not on and she was hysterical as he was telling her to not go, don't trust them and that they will hurt her.
I am obviously not sending her into school tomorrow but worried about the schools reaction or what they will do as they now call me if she is off school to see why as i log it on studybugs as mental health and they check up. My plan is to try to contact the GP and also Camhs in morning (already waiting for a referral to be accepted) but I am also totally confused as she can behave totally normal, then have random extreme episodes and now hearing voices so worried no one will believe me and even doubt myself sometimes.

GP previously said it sounds like she has anxiety and depression so that is why we are waiting for Camhs help but feel stuck with no support from school and a child who is clearly struggling. I feel as a parent that I don't know what to do right now or for the best.

Any advice?

@FloatingBean I am confused by your message. Realistically, lots of children remain on a reduced timetable to allow them to access school. For many, this is reduced further at secondary when school becomes more demanding. I get that ideally there should be alternatives offered to 100% mainstream but this is not accessible to everyone, unfortunately.

What part of my post are you confused about?

Yes, lots of DC are on long term part-time timetables with no other provision. Lots of schools and LAs act unlawfully. There are few exceptional circumstances where a long term part-time timetable on its own is lawful. If DC can’t attend school full time, and I agree full time school is sometimes not appropriate, other provision must be provided as well or instead of (depending on needs). This is available to all CSA pupils, although parents often have to fight for it and enforce their DC’s rights.

Oh OP, it breaks my heart that scores of anxious, high masking, struggling autistic kids are ignored by schools because they can achieve academically and aren’t disruptive. I come up against this again and again with my own children.

The school are failing your daughter and things need to change. Would you even consider moving schools? Are you in any local parent support groups? I find them so helpful to compare notes and get advice when it comes to getting kids adequately supported. Sometimes you don’t know what to ask for (well, I certainly don’t).

Your comment is strange. Government guidance says that reduced timetables should be a temporary measure and ideally last for 6 weeks.

And schools have a duty to use their best endeavour to ensure school is accessible to all neurodivergent students, so that they are not at a substantial disadvantage when compared to their peers.

It's a tricky one OP.
It's not right for the school to not flag up the self harming. I've got a child in my class doing this at the moment and we're on the phone to mum about it almost daily, having meetings etc. We're doing our best to support her self esteem as that seems to be the issue, but being honest we have limited resources/expertise.
It needs fast tracking to external services. Child psychologist, CAMHS, GP.
I know you'll already be doing this

Regarding the comments about reduced timetable. This is only usually suggested in the best interests of the child and others around, but with something like this it should be under the advice of child psychologists, EMHCPs.
Often it happens if the school simply does not have the capacity to support the child in the way needed, but it would never be a long term solution. Long term, either the child would come back with additional support they need, or they would join a setting that does.
I've only ever experience of this with behavioural difficulties however not related necessarily to MH.

Part-time timetables should not be used to manage behaviour or because it is easier for the school. This would amount to an unlawful exclusion.

Part-time timetables can be longer term if they are alongside other provision. For example, some DC attend school part-time and have provision at home part-time, or some DC attend school part time and e.g. a care farm part-time.

@FloatingBean we might be under different systems- I am in Scotland. Reduced timetables are something I have seen used a lot in the context of a sensory profile. It's not used as a convenience but because that is the best intervention for the child and in response to the specifics of their profile.
For some children the issue is about their capacity to cope with school so the reduction is about giving them time to regroup and regulate.

So an update, if you can actually call it that.
Spoke to GP this morning and although he said he can't help due to how young she is and have to go through Camhs, he will do an urgent referal to hopefully bump up the one we already have. He said to not send her into school as it is only making things worse and to tell the school you won't send her in until adequate support is in place as they should be supporting and arent. He also said to contact the local authority to try to get them to force the school into supporting so have also contacted them now.

Phoned camhs and said someone will call back and they haven't again so will send another email tonight and phone again tomorrow.

Have booked in a private assessment but earliest I can get is May so now stuck waiting for help and a child out of school.

I emailed the school after listing her as absent on their app stating I would not be sending her in due to the most recent developments, until I have got advice from a specialist and have not heard back from them either so not sure whst to do next but at least she is home and safe for now.

we might be under different systems- I am in Scotland.

Education law is different in Scotland to that in England. My posts are based on English SEN law. Although Enquire (the equivalent of IPSEA and SOSSEN) believe part time timetables alone shouldn’t be used long term in Scotland either.

It's not used as a convenience but because that is the best intervention for the child and in response to the specifics of their profile.

Part time timetables are used for the convenience of schools &/or LAs. You only have to read threads on here about that. That part of my post wasn’t in response to you it was in response to the poster stating they have seen it used to manage behaviour and because the school lacks the capacity to cope.
 Both of which should not be happening.

For some children the issue is about their capacity to cope with school so the reduction is about giving them time to regroup and regulate.

I haven’t posted otherwise, but long term a part-time timetable on its own isn’t enough, except in a very small minority of cases legally there must be other provision as well. That does not have to mean provision in school. It can be at home, at an AP, in the community, online, via therapies (e.g. SALT, OT, SIOT, MH therapies), sports/music/drama/coding clubs, via a budget… whatever meets the pupils needs.

It is the LA with the duty to provide education to those unable to attend school. Email the LA’s Director of Children’s Services informing them of the situation and requesting provision under s.19 of the Education Act 1996. If this doesn’t work or you are ignored send another email threatening judicial review. If that fails contact SOSSEN for help with a pre-action letter.

Hi OP, I've been through similar recently. It sounds like you are doing the right things. A few further suggestions.

Get the GP to write a letter confirming what he/she said on the phone. This will provide evidence for an EHCP and if the school/county tries to get heavy with you about non attendance.

Take a look at Young Minds website, they have great advice and you can also get good support via their helpline.

Going forward, you need to work out what the school needs to do to make school ok for your DD. Ask the school to get an Educational Psychologist in to assess her as well as getting advice from the county SEN support team. Don't be fobbed off with excuses about her being bright. Her mental health is clearly not good, and that alone, even without a diagnosis of ASD, should be promoting the school to act.

I would be expecting the school to do the following, depending obviously on your DD's needs and feelings: late start to avoid rush, familiar person to meet her at the door and settle her, place to go if she doesn't want to go straight to classroom (eg resource area with a trusted TA), option to stay indoors at playtime and play with toys/crafts, option to sit out of any lessons that are particularly difficult (PE often difficult for ND kids). Reduced timetable to allow her to gradually reintegrate after being off.

If school tries lots of adaptations and your DD is still struggling, she may not be able to cope in mainstream, and she may need EOTAS (education other than at school). This is expensive for the county so they try and avoid it wherever possible and often don't give children what they are entitled to. Before you look into that though, see if school can be adapted.

Good luck.

OP this sounds very scary for you and your little girl. You need to get as much evidence as you can. And some cameras up in main rooms you use, catching this behaviour will help too, the violence towards you and then also your parenting techniques are all good ways to show what is happening, the full picture. Turning your phone on mid meltdown as you said makes it worse and it's also hard to analyse the events or dialogue used pre- meltdown. It may be that someone can give you pointers on other language to use and professionals can identify specific patterns and triggers, analyse your daughters language also that might actually be a good indicator of what is causing the extreme emotional distress.

Thank you for the update. I'm so pleased your GP has come through for you and fingers crossed CAMHS will be in touch. In the meantime there's no harm booking a private appointment just in case, as long as you can cancel it without penalty if you find you no longer need it.

Evidence is absolutely crucial here, personally I wouldn't have cameras in the house without my daughter's consent and there's no way she would have agreed to it. But getting as much as you can in writing will really when applying for an EHCP, DLA etc. also all these emails your writing make an excellent paper trail and will help you remember what happened when.

If you can get a letter from your GP that will really help. On the back of the GP recommendations ask the school that you start the EHCP now and get your daughter assessed by an OT, SaLT, and Educational Psychologist. There will be a more suitable school than the one she's currently attending and this school owes it to you and your daughter to help make that happen as soon as possible.

Latest update. Got a call from Camhs saying they are concerned but school should have already and need to support so have to put in place adequate support, get Early Help involved, Ed Psych and school counselling. If after this there are still issues, they will see her. School have now said they don't want her in until she sees Camhs so stuck with DD out of school with no help and stuck in a catch 22 situation. I knew things were bad with the system but this seems ludicrous in this day and age. Probably my fault as sent in official letter to school highlighting all the points of failure in regards to their lack of input with DD so now being over cautious but still no closer to getting help.

School have now said they don't want her in until she sees Camhs so stuck with DD out of school with no help and stuck in a catch 22 situation.

If you feel DD is able to attend, the school cannot refuse to allow her to unless they are formally excluding her. Email the headteacher informing them DD will be attending and to refuse her without formally excluding would be an unlawful informal exclusion.

On the other hand if you don’t think DD is able to attend the LA must make alternative arrangements. Email the Director of Children’s Services informing them of the situation and requesting provision under s.19 of the Education Act 1996. If provision isn’t forthcoming email again threatening judicial review. If that fails contact SOSSEN for help with a pre-action letter.

The school should be providing support, an EHCNA should be requested and the LA should provide education if DD is unable to attend full time. However, CAMHS are passing the buck not to accept a referral until all of this has been put in place, push back on this. I would request an assessment from the disabled children’s team for DD and a carer’s assessment for you rather than support from early help.

So CAMHS are saying that because the school have done nothing to support your daughter they're not going to help her either even though they are concerned!
Like FloatingBean said push back on this and also let your GP know the position you're now in with both the school and CAMHS in deadlock.
The system is absolutely broken isn't it but please don't be too discouraged. I don't know what you think but I would say the most important thing for your daughter is to find the right environment and I wonder if SOSSEN or SENDIASS could advise you of a school with better provision nearby. I know you said there were waiting lists but as she's currently being refused entry by her current school this may work in your favour. The LA have a duty to get your daughter into full time education and if the current school can't meet her needs they should be getting her into one that can

I have a very similar situation with my dd10 also ASD. She loathes school and begs me not to send her. She is violent towards me and full of anger and anxiety. I'm actually scared of her. The school says that once she's at school she's fine. They have been very lax in offering support. I'm in the process of applying for an ehcp. I've kept her off the last few days but the school don't seem to care that she isn't in. Her mental health is suffering so much.

@lollipoprainbow If DD can’t attend school full time the duty to provide education is with the LA, not the school. It should begin once it becomes clear 15 days will be missed, the days don’t need to have already been missed or consecutive.

Sorry to hear you’re in this position OP the only advice I can offer is to have every correspondence with the school in writing. Anyone can deny a conversation or a phonecall took place, they can’t deny anything that is in black and white
I would reply to what the school sent you and cc CAMHs and your GP in that email and remind them there is a 7 year old child at the heart of all this that is struggling and is now being denied an education

What you wrote about your dd is the same as my 7 year old ds it's like I wrote your post myself. Only thing my son hasn't done is someone is talking to him. School are not helping. I had to call 111 earlier as he was cutting his arms with a knife. Never been so scared in my life.
My son has been diagnosed yet its taken 2 years but he's finally been referred and on the waiting list for snap dragons. I emailed the school this evening and made a appt tomarrow with the mental health officer in the school. Going to read the replies on your post