PDA/Autism Now Attachment disorder

[Kingof93]

Sorry if this has been posted before but I'm digging and finding nothing.

My 6yo has real problems in school. He struggles only in that environment and was given a diagnosis of PDA at one time. The school since his struggles have increased have now decided it could be attachment disorder and are now sending the "boxall report" stating that it could be inadequate parenting.

For the record the school previously raised a complaint about us after a misunderstanding about road traffic safety and that report stated we are a loving home.

So now I have a school pointing the finger and today a child shouting I hate you at my wife. A term he only started using when another child said "i hate you" to my son.

Does anyone know of any other routes to help. I'm on the waiting list for NHS help and have spoken to a private helper for autism but the school are really affected our lives now by pointing the finger.

I can expand on things.

for example hes very easily lead. from week one of school he was manipulated and pushed to do things and getting those behaviours to stop has been impossible as we speak to him but then school is the trigger.

So the school isn’t coping.
Crucially, your DS is not coping in that environment. He is stressed.
Are there other options? Special schools locally or other mainstream schools with good SEN provision?

Who diagnosed your son previously? Could you get plugged back into that clinic (by ringing directly and asking if it’s possible to get him a new appointment without a referral since he’s already been diagnosed at that clinic)? This might reduce the wait.

When you say "given a diagnosis of PDA at one time" was that an official diagnosis?

A really good talk with him (many times!) is what I call the cause and effect talk. Consequences!
“If you make this choice, then this will happen.”
He’ll need a lot of talks about good choices and the consequences of making poor ones. Though I understand he might not give a fig about the consequences.
It’s worth trying.

Still, your fastest track (or less slow) is to call up the clinic (was it paediatrics?) where he was initially diagnosed. Because that will be on his record at that clinic and he may not need to be re-referred. He may be able to be booked in for a review.

It was the local senss lead who gave it and the school said that was the case. I went on courses and everything and it was all very clear and made sense to us.

Now its not the case and we are being blamed and its taxing to say the least. I reached out to the lady from before by email and Im hoping she comes back to me and can explain whats happened.

I have had the consequences talk daily. he doesnt get it. Its common with autism and we suspect its more than just PDA.

The school maintain its us. However as parents we can manage and see his anxiety coming on and can manage it fast. School is hundreds of triggers but they wont acknowledge this.

Also the school will not allow any teacher to communicate with parents without the head being given the details first? is that odd?

This is often the case with schools, they don’t have the specialist skills and knowledge to work with children with autism or PDA so the finger pointing comes from a place of ignorance on their part.

Did the psychologist make any recommendations on how to support and how are these being followed in school?

Personally I’d email the governors and local authority outlining your concerns about the school failing to cope with issues solely being school based.

I cant email the governors directly as all emails go to the school to then be passed onto the relevant governors.

We had a learning plan in place which didn't work. They tried part time school and that didn't work. Long term didn't work. They were trying to work on gauging his day by him and guiding him but the head keeps going off and deciding what's best when in fact he's scared of her.

Does school offer him sensory breaks? Is there a sensory space?

PDA is part of ASD. However it needs the opposite approach to the way you would with most ASD. A child’s anxiety would be fuelled by the expectations around routine and consistency for example.
I think it would take a lot of planning for them to meet his needs and you’d know if they were managing this.
Otherwise ODD oppositional defiance disorder has similar behaviours but not necessarily with ASD. How you parent would be looked at. It doesn’t necessarily mean you are a bad parent. It could be a family approach to behaviour that needs tweaking.

Could you ask for the chair of governors to meet with you?

The learning plan needs revising. It sounds like he needs specialist input to guide the teachers as they are out of their depth. Maybe an OT and Speech Therapist.

Read your update. If your son hadn’t got extra funding it would take a really switched on school to help with PDA. Children need really individualised support. Just providing a safe space and traffic light cards won’t cut it.

I think go through the hoops. It’s going to be much easier if it’s ODD as you can do something about it quicker and get his education back on track. If it’s PDA it’s a long haul and it’s really tough getting children to their full potential.

There is no sensory space in the school beyond a beanbag they put him on.

The school maintained there were no SEN children at all yet another parent we speak to has a child with the reverse of mine. They mask all day at school and then dump physically and emotionally at the end of the day.

Im just frustrated as I jumped through hoops to get the PDA help and now im told "oh no its not PDA its the parents"

If you think DS needs more support at school you can apply for an EHCP.

Are you sure DS received a formal PDA diagnosis? Normally SENSS don’t diagnose autism as they are a LA SEN support service, not a NHS medical service.

We had a very similar situation and it it rumbled on for a year or 2 at this age. Then he was distressed by it all he didn't go to school for a year. In the end what he needed was a SEN school and amazingly the correct support and understanding was completely different and he's thrived for the last 4 years.

I assumed it was a diagnosis as they put him on the register locally as having SEN requirements and they applied for the funding. We have an EHCP coming next week for certain and im worried about that now as his actions and words and well honestly hes the most unreliable witness.

he reported to the school I had banged my wifes head into the dashboard while driving. In fact we had been explaining that he must wear a seatbelt as he tried to undo his while we were driving. We said if you dont wear a seatbelt and I have to brake hard mummy will hit her head on the dashboard and would be hurt.

He reported that I had done that. We had a lovely 24 hours after in dealing with all sorts of people.

Being put on the SEN register and applying for funding does not equate to a diagnosis. A diagnosis isn’t necessary for either of those. They relate to the LA, whereas it would be the NHS (or private) who would diagnose ASD (or PDA but many areas don’t recognise PDA as a stand-alone diagnosis).

If you have an EHCP being finalised next week what did the EHCNA assessments say? And what support is in the draft?

If wearing a seatbelt is an issue you need a crelling harness for the car.

I am confused about who diagnosed him with PDA? It is a very serious medical condition, you dont get a diagnosis from a teacher. As with attachment disorder - this does not necessarily come from inadequate parenting, by the way, so it might not be what they are saying. Trauma, medical intervention, separation because of hospitalisation on parent or child, etc. But again, a very serious diagnosis requiring specific support and treatment - not something handled at school

PDA is related to ASD by the way,

The Governors should be on the website. You don't have to go through the school. They can't stop you contacting them.

They can't diagnose attachment disorder either - they aren't qualified to give out diagnosis.

I would reach out to your LA education psychologists. Ask them to sign post what you need to do in your LA for your child to be supported at school.

The Boxall Profile doesn’t ‘blame parents’. It’s a helpful tool that looks at a child’s current social and emotional development and gives strategies on how to help.
If there is an EHCP on its way next week, then your child will have been seen by a number of professionals, not only school staff. What do their reports suggest his needs are (eg EP report)?

Next week is the EP going to see him in school. FInally. We started the ball a year ago and then the school changed to an different lady and we got missed in the process.

The SENSS lead for the area gave us the PDA "diagnosis" but now I doubt thats very real given what ive now read.

Im going to pay for a private assessment and im waiting for the date to be confirmed. We also have a referal but getting to see a GP to move that is hard.

All of the results we had previously are based on ASD testing for children.

Hes no issue with seatbelts now as he does understand many concepts at a high level. But socially hes very immature with his peers and as I said very easily lead by other to be "naughty" oddly though when at his swimming class hes a model pupil.

Have you requested all the assessments that are necessary as part of the EHCNA e.g. SALT, OT, psychiatrist &/or clinical psychologist?

If you haven’t already you need to read up (IPSEA and SOSSEN are a good starting point) on EHCPs as the LA are in breach of the statutory timescales if you made the EHCNA request a year ago as an EHCP must be finalise within 20 weeks of the request, and you could have enforced the timescales. The school changing EP shouldn’t have delayed the EHCP process.

A school SENCO cannot diagnose any disorder - autism, PDA, attachment or ODD. It’s unhelpful if they start talking about a child like this as it creates an false narrative if no NHS services have made a diagnosis and labels a child rather than thinking about what they need. The school should be focussing upon his additional needs and putting in place provision irrespective of any diagnosis.

if you are in the ECHNA process, an educational psychologist assessment will form the basis of understanding his SEN and inform whether a plan or other assessments are needed eg SLT etc.

NHS services will be being asked if your child is known to them and making a request for advice or assessment as part of ECHNA. If you are accessing paediatrics/CAMHS they should be sharing information. If you’re not, the ECHNA process could be the process which identifies a referral being needed. If you think your child has health needs which are not being addressed as part of ECHNA contact your local designated clinical officer for Send in the local Integrated Care Board who can advocate for this. You’ll be able to find out who they are through the local offer website or LA can tell you.

If you’re accessing NHS services for your child ask about next steps re his needs and any diagnosis - ASD can be self referral in some areas. Speak to your NHS services before going down the private route, as although private is quick you get what you pay for ie a diagnosis. NHS services will undertake assessment that meets NICE guidelines and be the right ones.

I’m confused about the PDA diagnosis - NHS do not give this as a stand-alone diagnosis.

best of luck. SENDIASS service locally will be able to advocate for you and support also.

I’m a CAMHS commissioner AMA :)

Under Reg 6(1)(h) of the SEN Regs 2014 the LA must seek “advice and information from any person the child’s parent or young person reasonably requests that the local authority seek advice from.” This can include SALT, OT, psychiatrist etc. The EP does not need to inform whether other assessments are needed.


Whether a child is known to a service or not isn’t relevant. “Not known to the service” is not a lawful response and a normal referral is not required. The assessment must be undertaken via the EHCNA within the statutory timescales. If the NHS can’t or won’t assess within the timescales the LA must commission independent assessments.

@JustKeepBuilding you are quite right re the EP process it does not “need” to inform, but it “may” do.

Being known to a service is relevant because it lawfully draws services providing advice. I didn’t actually suggest that a “not known” response would be made or was lawful or otherwise, but talked about if the child/family was accessing services. Hence the DCO reference.

Jeez. Just trying to help.