Dd school refusing..getting no where with CAHMS

[onanotherday]

Dd is 14 and been diagnoised with PTSD, anxiety and depressions. We finally, after a long wait, are attending CAHMS..
8 months on not making much progress and im teally worry about GCSE's. Beside her health the added stress of being s single psrent and syrughling to work has had an pact on me too. I've started to consider home schooling ( I'm a teacher). But financially we struggle..would I be intitle to a career allowance? Can anyone advise
TIA

I don't think anyone doubts that the CAMHS professional's have good intentions. But the fact is the service is so under-resourced they do not have the staff to give the long-term help that children like the Op's (and mine) need. As a parent I think it is better to know this so you can seek alternative sources of help rather than waiting patiently for a service that is not fit for purpose.

No, you're right, but it's hard to be measured when you've been let down again and again, and see others going through the same - referrals refused for suicidal children, extremely volatile and mentally u well children discharged because it's normal for autism.
It's perhaps equally unfair to give unrealistic expectations. When we were first referred to CAMHS I would have welcomed some practical advice to navigate the system. As it is, we have three CAMHS involvements behind us with nothing to show but a fear of having to be involved again, but with no choice because they are the only services available to our children.
I'm in a different area than raindrops, but have a service that not fit for purpose, and this has been spelled out by our GP and by ds's paed, it's not just a parents' point of view. I occasionally hear of excellent services, but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

Only services available unless we can pay for it, that should have said.

Maisypops please don't cherry pick my posts for generalistions when CAMHS "clinicians" have made similar generalisations and have not reverted with specifics.

Everyone who has a bad experience of CAMHS should write to their MP. As members of the public we pay x amount in tax for healthcare. As members of the public we did not make the decision that 20% of the population (under 18s) should receive 5-6% of the overall MH spend.

The most important thing CAMHS needs to do to minimise impact on the education of young people is to stop working 9-5 because that's what therapies do. It's lame and serves to please the staff rather than the patients. Young people bed much more accessible services, especially if their CAMHS team is an hours journey from their school.

First slot at 9.30. Leave CAMHS at 10.45, chat to their mum, arrive school at 12, miss lesson that started at 11.45 because they are anxious and don't want to interrupt lesson. Aah GCSE maths, English and French missed which means a scramble for notes and homework. How does that help a young person struggling with school/school performance. Even worse if therapy is offered for six consecutive weeks at 10.30 with the same lessons missed every week. How does a young person catch that up? Ah, the caring CAMHS staff only work 9-5 because they are therapies. And so it goes on. The service cannot meet its customer needs if it delivered inflexible.

I have come across Raindrop's previous rantings against CAMHS, posted under a different user name. Raindrops has clearly not had a good service but extrapolates from that to give skewed advice to any family engaging with CAMHS, which is frankly unhelpful.

To the OP, has your school referred to the area medical education team (or whatever they are called)? In my CAMHS we work along side that team and the school to put together a joint package that works to address the mental health issues, provide education while the child is out of school and gradually engage with school reintegration. This is the most effective way to tackle mental health related school refusal, in my experience. It is about a joint, multi-agency approach. CAMHS on their own cannot do it all. Good luck.

They are not rantings sealsong they are real experiences I'm afraid. CAMHS are opaque as has been evidenced on this thread. It is therefore wise to document and reiterate to them everything they say they will do. Too often they claim something they promised was misunderstood. That is a fact of my experience with them.

Parents need to pull together over this and ensure better services in future. If CAMHS weren't going to help my dd it would have been more helpful if the first person we saw had said "I have assessed her as 2/3 and at present we are only offering regular 1:1 support to clear tier 3's therefore we cannot assist. It did not help to find that out 8 weeks later after three chases. That was 8 weeks of lost support because we were led to believe better support would be forthcoming.

One of the most significant issues is that there isn't an alternative to CAMHS therapies. Unless families can afford full psychiatric assessments, they are at the mercy of scouring the internet for counsellors, many of whom will not take on a teenager actively self harming and recommend CAMHS. If CAMHS is so under resourced do you not agree that there needs to be a more legitimate framework with identified outcomes and clinical supervision that parents who can, can pay for and that might prevent escalation and dilution of esteem and life progress?

My apologies if you feel that's a rant but when one has experienced the side of CAMHS my family saw one understands the grave shortcomings of the service for which we all have indirectly paid already

Raindrops had a bad experience and hasn't stopped banging on about it since. In a very paranoid and malicious way.

Ignore.

OneInEight
I agree. It's a hugely over stretched service, which means it cannot do everything the staff would want to in an ideal world. It's not that it's full of people who can't be arsed and can't be bothered to do their job.
I think it's right we are aware of the current situations and then parents know other avenues of support.

It might be worth the OP contacting their LA's medical/anxious children unit. Sometimes they are linked to PRUs (but not in the PRU) other times they can be linked to wider EOTAS services, including home tuition provided by the council.

Camhs is so appallingly underfunded - and of course provision varies from place to place. But people go into it because they want to help young people.

This link shows how hard it can be for professionals too to not be able to deliver what they were trained to do.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2015/may/02/crisis-in-childrens-mental-health-nhs-insider-speaks

Stating facts is not malicious. Misleading parents over type of care and time frames is.

In an ideal world CAMHS could reach a lot more children who need support if they were available on Saturdays and between 5pm and 7pm. That would not necessarily mean that additional hours would have to be worked it would mean that services are delivered more flexibly in accordance with patient needs.

Can’t the school’s Ed Psych help? Certainly in my area they work quite intensely with school refuser.

I've read that article be for farfrom. What strikes me is why there isn't a duty CAMHS assessor into the late evening and over night. The cost of that would avoid the need to admit for two or three nights to an acute bed because CAMHS are not available outside 9-5 for such things. It would save the cost of acute admissions, the impact on staff and other children needing beds for physical issues and avoid the disruption to clinics and families on Monday mornings. Yes, those parents who were expecting an assessment for their child on Monday morning and had booked a half days leave to facilitate it.

It really isn't rocket science and the savings to the acute trustsbcpukd funds more CAMHS services. If only therapies could work flexibly.

I suppose that's a paranoid and malicious observation.

In some areas there are raindrops. And psychiatrists take turns in being on call. But that doesn’t stop acute admissions.
And it doesn’t stop the fact that as other services are being dessimated and more families are in crisis- that referrals are going up. And in many trusts resources are going down. Flexible hours is a good idea and many adolescent services do offer before and after school services. But that will not solve this. If you have 15 therapists with full caseloads and 200 children on the waiting list for example you cannot magically provide for them no matter how much you know they need help.

Having said that there are still good services and people who are helped. But there are also casualties.

But a paid for tier of service that families could be signposted to at the earlier stages or while waiting would help hugely. Families who could pay for their 2/3 borderline dc would therefore safely free capacity for those in more need or who couldn't pay. This however seems to go against the grain of the left wing ethos that fully pervades the NHS despite the number of NHS therapists/counsellors/psychiatrists who take on private work facilitated by fractional but previously publicly funded qualifications. The NHS staff really can't have it all ways. No way was i going to find my dd a counsellor/therapist off the internet and there is a tiny rub about paying someone who may work orivatelyvat convenient times because they appreciate that's what families need but who is not prepared to work publicly during the times that are best for families and young children.

Any way I will start another thread to harness how families can work together to try to make things better because this isn't happening now. Will call my MP and the CEO of the local hospital trust too after the holidays to try and get things rolling in a betterbdirection in the context of participation and feedback.

Hi OP,
What hours do you currently work?
Your DD is 14 how would she feel being in the house on her own for this time?
Is there any relatives she could spend this time with?
I home ed my 11 year old, you can educate any time of day or night not just school hours.
So all you really need is to make sure she is ok while you work.
If she's had a bad time it may be worth giving her some 'time off' from structured learning, it's known as deschooling.
Get on face book and find your local home ed community, once you have friends in your area you'll be in a much more informed position.
Pm me if you need to.
Good luck.

OP, you may find CAB can help tell you if you are entitled to Carers allowance or if dd is entitled to PIP (the new dla).

I also wondered if there is any alternative provision? Some areas have a 14-16 college option which may be better when dd is ready?

In terms of financial help your dd might be entitled to DLA if she needs substantially more care than your average fourteen year old. This might include extra supervision to enable her to go out because of anxiety, extra support with self-care etc if she needs encouraging to do these tasks because of depression etc etc. The cerebra website has a good guide to tell you what sort of things you can put down on the form. If she is eligible for DLA then in turn you are eligible for carer's allowance if your income is below a certain level. The DLA itself is not means tested as for your dd rather than yourself. The DLA form is daunting but once you get going it becomes easier if somewhat depressing to fill. My ds's have an ASC diagnosis but the issues they get DLA for are really down to anxiety so you might well be eligible too.

@FarFrom.
Thanks for the link. A very depressing read for a parent waiting for an assessment!

Sorry ihate. Honestly there are also really excellent services with very dedicated workers. So please don’t feel too depressed.

ihate as soon as Christmas is over please write to your CAMHS team noting your child's symptoms, your concerns and the date of the first referral. Specifically ask when your child was triaged, at what level was your child triaged, by whom (ie nurse or doctor), for a copy of the notes taken and also ask when the assessment is likely to take place and if you feel your child is deteriorating/escalating note that and what you feel may be the consequences. Copy the letter to the CEO and note that if you do not have a response within 10 working days you will be referring to your MP. Essential that you send all correspondence by registered delivery.

Good luck. You are a great mother advocating and caring for your child. An audit trail is absolutely essential.

Sorry raindrops but not all Camhs services triage in the way that you are suggesting. I’m not sure where you’ve got your information from but am sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Most Camhs professionals also took part in the Camhs review because believe it or not they also want to be able to provide the best service possible. Many could have much easier and better paid lives if they went into the private sector but actually do this job because they want to be able to help and believe that high quality mental health services should be available to children regardless of where they live or how much their parents earn. It would be all too easy to bow out because it’s not always possible to provide that but that certainly won’t make things better. You’re may find that you could join Camhs workers to fight for better services rather than assuming you are fighting against them.

It's a shame CAMHS staff don't provide high quality services then far (If I may use your first name). Some CAMHS workers may want to and do provide good services. The one dd was under didn't and my research indicates that many many CAMHS teams don't provide high quality services.

There is a lack of clarity too often about time frames for assessment and interventions and a little more honesty would be welcomed rather than the culture of excuses.

Anyway, it's Christmas Eve, my dd was diagnosed and has improved significantly But it had nothing whatsoever to do with CAMHS.

Merry Christmas

Thanks Farfrom and Raindrops. Unfortunately Camhs where we are was rated as the worst performing in the country recently (Cambs and Peterborough)
A year ago we were told she wasn’t bad enough.
Why does it take a parent/carer taking notes and asking questions via registered post to get anywhere?

Heart goes out to you ihatethecold. Hope you have a good Christmas. I.e. shouldn't have to go to these lengths but y experience is that setting down an audit trail of triangulated concern leaves them minimal wriggle room if something were to go wrong so they tend to pull their finger out.

The situation is an absolute disgrace. Some of it is about resources but some of it is about poor practice and poor attitudes.
There is an opaque sloppiness which often is contrived because without clear records they can't be held accountable.

I will pick up a thread in the NY.

This thread has certainly resonated with me. My 14 year old daughter is also school refusing and very keen to be homeschooled, however I'm still not sure its the right answer, although we are starting to think quite seriously about Interhigh for Years 10 and 11.

ihatethecold - we're also with Cambs and Peterborough CAMHs and I feel your pain - I'm not at all surprised to hear that they're the worst performing in the country! My dd suffers from moderate to severe depression and anxiety, however they won't offer any help as she's not suicidal. I requested a psychiatric assessment several months ago, but apparently she's not severe enough (despite being unable to go into school!) She has been put on a waiting list for CBT, although I understand that she's likely to wait around 18 months for treatment - how this will help her with her school refusal I really have no idea. I don't know where we go from here and I feel very alone in trying to deal with dd's problems. I hope you get your follow up appointment soon.

Best of luck to the OP too, I hope you manage to get somewhere with CAMHs.