Cybex Sirona or Britax Dualfix

[libertinelou]

What would people recommend between the Cybex Sirona and Britax Dualfix car seats? Both are ERF with Isofix and both swivel but I wondered which would potentially last longer for a tall child?

I think both of them are too small but I would say the sirona looks worse on legroom when rearfacing and that's why DH has the dual fix not sirona in his car. At the moment (DS is 8 months) it is fantastic but I wouldn't have got it for my car because it's just so small. Such a shame because it's a fantastic seat otherwise imo. Could you try both in your car and see what you think? These pictures are from the securatot website might give you an idea?

Definitely contact the in car safety centre they really know their stuff.

I tried both and went with the Dualfix. I didn't like the impact cushion on the Sirona (I'm not convinced that they are completely safe, plus dd2 hated it), plus the Dualfix is longer. It's a lovely seat, dd2 is rearfacing still at 30 months and seems comfy. The covers are a dream to remove and replace too

We have a Dualfix. Everything I've read online about use with older children is that they find somewhere to put their feet and stay comfy.

I've heard the impact bar on the Sirona is an issue for some kids.

I have a Sirona. I love it and DD who is 4 in June still fits in it comfortably. The impact cushion isn't a problem for us as I'd only use it rear facing anyway and the harness is used to rear face.

However, we also have the Axkid Minikid and it is far better than the Sirona or Dualfix, IMO. We originally really wanted an ERF seat as were worried about incorrect installation with a belted seat, but Securatot were really reassuring and have videos showing correct installation and I felt very confident with that and the instruction manual. The refer straps automatically tighten and it's just a nicer seat to use.

Do not under any circumstance use a Sirona since it has very short rear facing time and serious safety issues forward facing. I wrote a few lines about it in another thread here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/car_seats_chat/2325352-Cybex-Sirona-18month-old-working-his-arms-out-of-harness

Dualfix is a far better choice ut can be a bit upright in some cars and does also have relatively short rear facing time

I've been debating this too. adventuredad you mention short resurfacing time, don't they both rear face till 4?
Has anyone used either of these in a small car like a Yaris? That's what I have, can't afford to replace it. Don't want to drive hubby's estate but may have to if the car seat doesn't fit!

Rear facing, not resurfacing!

In theory yes they suit till 4yrs but it depends when you child reaches 18kgs (my 98th centile children reached 18kg at 2yr, 4 months!). Also the are both quite short seats compared with other rear facing seats. A shame as they are the two easiest to get on the high street

My nearly three year old is still RF in the Cybex Sirona, and I have to say I don't agree with adventuredad's posts on either this or the other thread. DS has been through a stage of escaping his arms from the straps, but he was doing this in both the Sirona and the FF seat in my mum's car (with harness, not impact shield). Friends have also had houdini DCs in other seats, both RF and FF - I think it is the child, not the seat, that is the factor. I do agree with adventuredad that you have to do whatever necessary to teach them that this is unacceptable - we've been successful with explaining why and using sticker bribery; DS doesn't get his arms out anymore.
I'd like to ask adventuredad to provide some evidence of his claims that the seat is unsafe, and only passed the testing through a loophole

TheGirl I've no idea what the space is like in a Yaris - we have ours in a Golf estate, but DH (6'4") can sit in the seat in front without being completely squished up.

Tea and Hobnobs: I asked him for links in the other thread, but found these myself:

www.maxi-cosi.com/car-seat-safety/car-seat-safety-technology/carseat-shield-system.aspx

www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2014/wp29grsp/GRSP-55-39e.pdf

That second link is a UN report of shield seats, and is pretty scary as to how little they might do to stop a child leaving the seat in a head-on impact.

Oh I didn't realise the safety issues were only about the impact shield forward facing - I knew about the concerns around those, which is one of the reasons why we are not using ours forward facing.
However the information in the other thread implies the seat is unsafe overall, rather than just because of the impact shield aspect.
I think the impact shield concerns are also more for seats with a single bar type impact shield, whereas the Sirona shield covers the whole torso - only the head and arms (and legs) are free, so you wouldn't have the same force applied to the abdomen in a crash that you would in the small type of impact shield.

I think also the main concerns with the impact shields are the risk of the child not being restrained in a rollover crash that they can "fall out". Well seriously if anyone could get my chunky monkey to "fall out" of the sironas enormous impact shield I would be completely astounded! Not that we will be trying it as he's only 9 months and I tend to stay rear facing so all a bit irrelevant.

Teaandhobnobs, yes, as I mentioned above my DD is 3.5 and still happily/safely fits rearfacing in the Sirona too. Plus, if the child is too big for the seat rearfacing, surely they are also too big for it forward facing?

Good point Midori!

I really wanted the Sirona, but ended up getting the Maxi cosi Pearl 2way. We wanted the option of turning it either way as we do a lot of motorway driving. The Sirona is too complicated to interchange.

Have you got access to 'Which'? The Britax Dualfix is on the 'Do not buy' list. I had considered it as my Godson has this one, but after reading the review by Which I narrowed it down to Sirona and 2Way Pearl.

Like you I was just confused with all the choice and the price.

Britax's response to Which's rating - worth a read...

Thanks. My husband doesn't really like 'Which'. I guess you have to read everything before taking on their reviews.

It does make me think twice about their reviews now

I love Which for most domestic-y things, but their reviews of baby/child related stuff really irks me. As a sling lover, their views on different baby carriers / slings get right up my nose!

Sorry about the late answers.

• Sirona does provide very short rear facing time. Rear facing to age four is unheard of but I guess it's theoretically possible for a very short child with very short upper torso.

• Most parents use Sirona to 18-24 months and then have to turn forward in the disastrous impact cushion system

• Dualfix is far better but still has a short seat shell. It will last to around 3-4 years. This is very short by Swedish standards but fantastic by all other countries. Guess one could see that as a positive or a negative:-)

• Experience show very clearly that parents turn their children forward facing far earlier when there s possibility to do so. This is why thee combination seats are poor from a safety perspective. Main issue for DUalfix and Sirona is the poor leg space. This is in reality almost never an issue for a child but parents are often concerned and turn kids forward facing years to early due to this issue. It's almost unheard of for a child to complain.

• Britax UK has done a video explaining the safety issues with impact cushions.. Parents don't know that ECE R44 testing doesn't use abdominal sensors. Neck forces in the unsafe impact cushion system are actually slightly lower than in a harnessed seat but still off the charts high. Can't even be compared with rear facing seats.

We get slightly lower neck forces but also chest deflation, rollover ejection and submarining. Usage of the new abdominal sensors will be written into the standard but we that only affects new seats. We can't ban the current and dangerous impact cushion seats.

If we look at testing we also see that crash test dummies are far stiffer than a normal child. Performance in rollover testing is very poor and will be enve worse in a real life accident.

I'm present in the crash labs for testing which is never shown and have the privilege of working with the experts in the world on car seats. There is no debate about impact cushion seats being unsafe and a very poor choice. Do not use these seats forward facing.

• Escaping the harness is a parenting issue and nothing else. Some kids are very creative and we should be happy about this. We just need to be observant and use discipline when it comes to a few important issues.

Some seats are probably a but better and others a bit worse about the harness issue but the responsibility is with the parent. Being a parent is never easy:-)

• Relying or even paying attention to Which! is like North Korea lecturing about democracy. Or ISIS talking about freedom or womens rights. Nothing but biased and subjective garbage. The recommendations from Which! are unfortunately read by many parents and crate lots of confusion.

Adventuredad: any idea how the Concord Reverso has done in any tests? I've checked the ADAC listing and can't find it.

Reverso is a new seat don't think ADAC testing has been done yet. Testing by ADAC, Which!, Stiftung Waren, etc. is at best biased and subjective garbage which should be disregarded. It doesn't make it better that the testing seem to be done by staff who has barely worked with car seats before.

I have played with Reverso in the crash lab and the seat is very nicely built with a beautiful design. One main feature is the higher 23 kg rear facing weight limit. It's the only seat with Isofix with a weight limit of more than 18 kg. This is because the seat is approved for the R129 standard and only weigh 10 kg.

Reverso is perhaps most importantly extremely strong. The seat basically consist of a strong fram with EPS and EPP foam around it. We expect the seat to pass the ultra strict Swedish Plus Test shortly which is not an easy thing to do.

Thanks, that's great news. Do you know when it's due to undergo the Swedish tests?

I don't have an exact date but hopefully soon.

Adventuredad 'Rear facing to age four is unheard of'

Where is your evidence of this please? My 3yr 9 month old daughter (ok, admittedly, not quite 4) still fits in the Sirona. She's 50th centile, so exactly average for her age. I have no doubt that she will still for in it on her fourth birthday. I don't think she's unique.