School Incident Between Children

[chocolatecakeluvva]

Last week mine & another 2 children were attacked by another child during play time. This child attacked our kids by strangling them and causing marks on their face & neck, punching one of them in the head. The school gave him 1 day internal exclusion, however the child was out at playtime in a different playground with younger children the day after the incident. Then back in class the following day.
Yesterday this child has attacked another child in the class again strangling & hand over the mouth. school has told the parents of the victim this was isolated incident, however I have told them this has happened last week.
Ive had a meeting with the HT and not really happy that it’s been brushed under the carpet.
Where can I go with this? I was advised child protection or ofsted.
please advise, many thanks

I am so sorry, events like this can leave a lasting legacy on children especially when they see little to no justice. Believe me I say this from sadly bitter experience.
Sadly schools have their hands tied, schools can no longer just expel students easily and if Primary you can imagine the fallout in the media when little of the real truth is published. Schools can seem draconian with their punishments sometimes and this is vilified in the media. If too soft schools blamed too they can’t win.

Teachers don’t want difficult children in their schools either for themselves and their concerns for the children in their care (and the following correspondence to rightly furious parents). No one wants this. Schools have to build a solid case to expel a student, actually now I don’t think they can expel, I think they have to go through a process of a managed move to another school, straight to a school for severe behaviour for very worst cases (have to say yours sounds to fit this), or if applying for a SEN / disabled specialist school for something this can take time as not enough places or funding. So yes take photos and email copies to the school. They may not comment but are likely to keep these on file with Safeguarding Team.

Schools often start with strict uniform measures, there is a direct link of good uniform to better behaviour, so next time a school implements stricter measures support them, there is a reason behind it all.

There are more levels of behaviours from children in mainstream schools now than before, this is due to a vast array of reasons. Some parents won’t believe their child is a problem at school, and blame the school. Schools have a wealth of experience just they can never make a comment.

Sadly all this results in a lot of teachers becoming despondent with their career choice and leaving the profession or becoming a temp and not having any responsibility.

Send photos to Safeguardijg team, ask for separation of physical child away from your child (and hopefully others). Hopefully the student in question gets the help and intervention they need to function positively in society as this is the end goal (and the parents to take it on board too).

Why would a school keep figures on brushing things under the carpet or lying. That would be very strange.

The op states that another parent had been told this is an isolated incident. Which it isn’t. Therefore they are lying. This in my experience is very common, things are down played, and minimised.

I didn't suggest the school sorry if you have misunderstood. I was meaning nationally as you said 'schools'.

You cannot say they are common if you do not know any more information.

I have seen these responses to incidents that were purposeful :

• schools sweeping it under the rug
• schools dealing with it effectively
• schools hands being tied
• schools facing false accusations

No idea how common each one is but I have seen a whole range.

That why I stress procedure.

You don't comment on what happens to the other child - other than say you think they need intervention and keep repeating this rather than punishment.

If you have an incident you keep saying 'what are you doing to safeguard my child'. You can't comment about other children. You can get an answer to this question - you want an action to safeguard your child. How can this be prevented from happening again, with steps of action and implementation. They have to do this. They can't do nothing.

If another child is then hurt, after you have done this, they need to ask the same questions. Get everyone on the same page. It tightens the screws.

If it happens to multiple children over a course of time and you all have it on record (remember you want to create a papertrail on all this), this is the point you can start to go over the school and raise it with governors and then on from there.

You need to understand the system and how to get the school tied in knots and be able to prove failure to safeguard your child.

If multiple child then get sucked in, you show a clear problem. This creates a greater case for intervention for the school - including removing the child if necessary.

Schools can't get rid of a child without evidence and a papertrail.

In our case we were fully aware that parents concerned we're not taking the issue seriously enough and refused to engage with services. By saying to school what are you doing to safeguard, documenting everything, it meant they had to get a third party organisation involved because of concerns. This in turn put pressure on the parents. They were ultimately forced to engage this way. This child is now recieving support they need and child themselves is much happier. It has improved things for the whole class. He is still in the class, but it's a world away from what it was.

This child had physically assaulted at least seven classmates over the course of some time. Some were not in school time and were witnessed directly by parents. I reported one such incident to school, against another child, as part of what was happening to mine stressing that I knew they couldn't do anything about it but to make sure they had on record it was happening in multiple settings and when the parents were present as it's part of a wider safeguarding picture.

We knew one other set of parents were making complaints about what was happening to their child, separately. We did not coordinate and they were much more confrontational and didn't go by the book in the same way and weren't getting taken as seriously. We kept each other informed though.

Genuinely I do think going by the book made us much harder to dismiss as the school had to demonstrate responses were correctly handled and appropriately. Going by the book, the school knows they don't have a way out because you understand how the system works and that you are capable of navigating it and ultimately dropping them in it if they aren't squeaky clean.

My DD was attacked in a similar way by child who she had done the same to others. She was 5 at the time. When she had told me this boy had been strangling people I told her if he does that to you go for his eyes with your hands and then kick him as hard as you can. Unpopular opinion, but if the child is a similar size and age to your child then encourage your child to fight back effectively. Strangulation is no joke, and yes having to explain to the school “oh yes I taught her those moves” is a bit awkward but the kid left her well alone and still does to this day. You should also complain and maintain your child will defend themselves if they are strangled. Strangulation is very different to a shove or a scratch.

If the child is older, you really need to rally the other parents and push for some real consequences. Make sure you follow the official complains procedure, all of you, separately. Separately make a joint complaint about the lying. I would be really really angry, your poor kid!!

Also, wouldn’t be happy that they let him out at playtime with younger kids?? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Certainly report to county safeguarding and you might mention to the school governors too. Very unreasonable of the HT to claim that it was an isolated incident…….the child sounds very troubled.

I don’t work in a school, I work with schools, and in my opinion there is often minimising and incidences being swept under the carpet. No, I can’t say this is a nation approach or provide statistics on this. However this my experience.

Iwould suggest meeting with the head of the school and explain you will be contacting the police. I am sure hear will then exclude the child.

School is already lying so you know it's being handled poorly by the senior leadership and they're busy covering their behinds rather than dealing effectively with the behaviour issues.

If finding a better school for your child isn't an option, than you need to follow their complaints procedure and formally complain, in writing. Make sure you specifically ask how they're fulfilling their duty of care to and safeguarding your child.

This is why I said 'concern' not complaint...
You're not meant to be upset and complain that your child is being assaulted and hurt.... that's mean and unkind.. your first worry is to be why the other child is upset remember!

The age of criminal responsibility in England, Wales and Northern Ireland is 10-years-old. If the child is 10 or over and you live in England,Scotland and Wales report to police and make a formal complaint to school and governors.

@chocolatecakeluvva Wow, strangulation and with a hand over their mouth? How old are the children OP? Are they over the age of criminal responsibility (10)?
I'm astonished that the HT doesn't see this as a safeguarding issue - both for the victims and the perpetrator because what on earth are they seeing at home to act this way? If I were the HT I would want to look very closely at the perpetrator's home life and/or their access to the internet.
Are you and the other parent whose child was a victim in the second attack aligned on this OP? If so, perhaps you could tell the HT you will be making a joint report to your local authority's Children's Services Dept (and the police if the perpetrator is 10 or older) about the child - this may galvanise the HT into taking more appropriate action.

So that if what you see from your schools then. Do you see the rest that I shared too?

@Noodles1234 yes, schools can still 'expel' except its now called permanent exclusion. To permanently exclude at primary age, its very difficult and schools will often be requested by the local authority to find 'an alternative to permanent exclusion' this may be a managed move, but that's more common at secondary age. When a child is permanently excluded, the local authority must provide a suitable education by the 6th day.. at primary age this is often though a commissioned 'alternative provision' previously often known as a 'pupil referral unit'. If the child is waiting for an EHCNA or a draft EHCP then the local authority still has to provide suitable provision it certainly doesn't have to be a specialist school at that stage and a school can still end up being told to 'rescind' a permanent exclusion as parents also have a right of appeal. Permanent exclusions must be justifiable, proportionate and fair and the meeting that takes place (called a governors disciplinary committee) is a statutory requirement.

Permanent exclusion is rare. Inclusion is encouraged and many schools bend over backwards to accommodate challenging children. I support inclusion, to a point. Where it consistently negatively impacts on the rest of the class, it should not continue.

Yes of course, and that’s great and fantastic, hopefully op’s child school with act with honesty and integrity. So far, from the op’s post that doesn’t appear to be the case.

I see those frequently too. I wouldn't say it is great and fantastic to see the false accusation one but the rest - absolutely.

Hopefully they will do but it may not be.

Wow this is very troubling behaviour and what a disappointing reaction from the school.

My Son had 2 boys wrap a seatbelt round his neck on the school bus and pull, it terrified him. I was straight on the phone to the bus company and head of year and would have happily contacted the police if I wasn’t happy with their reaction. I also told the school my son wouldn’t be going in until it was investigated and they could guarantee his safety.

The school and bus company were amazing, zero tolerance. Both Boys were excluded from school for a few days and weren’t allowed on the bus for a term which would have been a massive inconvenience to their families.
They also had a huge telling off and gave a very heartfelt apology to my son.

Happy to report no issues since so the school reaction is everything.

Sorry I don't have any real help to add other than when it happened to my son I took it to the HT and then the governors both who brushed it under the carpet, the child then attacked my child outside of school (while the boys were playing rugby) and a parent who was a police officer happened to be watching and it was then escalated to the police. I then removed my child from the school as I no longer trusted them.

Oh my goodness. That’s terrifying for you and your child. Ask to meet with the school. Suggest you might look to going to the police and/or the press if they don’t play ball. That child is unsafe to be around their peers. They need some sort of help. And, if it were my child, I’d be teaching them to kick/stamp bloody hard so the child didn’t try it again!

Sorry I’m only just reading all the comments.

all the kids are in year 5, some are already 10 & some are still 9. I’m unsure of the exact age of the attacker at present, however he’s in yr5.

I have emailed the HT again today stating I’m aware he’s attacked another of one his peers and he clearly isn’t stable. I’ve also made clear I don’t feel safe sending my child in knowing the child who assaulted others is on the school premises and nothing seems to have been done.

I’ve not had a reply but I don’t expect one until abit later in the morning.

im still frazzled over the situation if I’m honest as I feel the school have taken it VERY lightly.

Since he's likely 10 already, I would seriously consider reporting to the police and encouraging the other parents to do the same if you continue to be fobbed off by the school.

I’m not sure what response you are hoping for.

The school can’t permanently exclude a child from their premises for these incidents, even if they wanted to. You say "nothing seems to have been done", but how do you know that? The school would rightly not be able to discuss with you anything about counselling, therapy, warnings, parental meetings etc. concerning the other child.

Police.

@Nothinglikeagoodbook where has op asked for all that info? That's a bit 'look squirrel!!' of you, as it reads that the violent attacking child is of course having therapy and counselling and how awful and intrusive of @chocolatecakeluvva to be demanding this info...
But that's how the schools and the parents of the violent child obfuscate these incidents...
The guilt attempts...'how can you possibly think about anyone other than this poor, violent child?! They're the obvious victim/focus of us all...'.🙄