Bullied children being asked to leave the school

[Francesca1234]

My 4 year-old son was attacked in the toilets of his school last October. It was completely unprovoked and the attackers admitted to what they did.

One of the first things the headteacher said to us after the incident was 'you are welcome to find another setting for your child if you aren't happy here.'

Since leaving the school we have heard of many parents who have pulled their children out of the school for similar reasons to us. We've also heard that the school has gained a reputation of being the 'bullying school' with parents in the catchment area scared that their children will be forced to go there.
Also, since we left, every teacher in the school has been replaced (except the head).

A new ofsted report has just come out saying that the school is good across the board. I complained bitterly to ofsted at the time and am shocked that they haven't picked up on any of the problems. All I can think is that by being asked to leave the school the head is getting rid of the parents who are likely to complain in order to get a good ofsted report. Has anyone else heard of this happening?

Incredible. So your child ends up with bruising and an invite to leave the school while the bully gets rewarded weekly for not hitting anyone...isn't that just a bribe? Wow that'll teach him a lot -NOT! Just out of interest did you leave the school in the end or was it resolved?

We are still there and things did improve but we are at the beginning of a new term. All schools in the area are over subscribed the only option was private.

I wish your DS all the best, I hope things continue to improve. x

This happened in my son's school, some years ago. It had a reputation locally for bullying and high teacher turnover, but it was hard to get any hard facts about anything from anyone.

The bullying started against 2 boys. It involved a charismatic ringleader, his sidekick (somewhat literally) and a group of about 6 boys. Gradually, the others had to join, or be bullied. (Read Dorothy Einon)

Some left because of the bullying, some because of the disruption it caused to the class. I talked to the LA, who could not do anything, but listened and told me the procedure of complaining, but said the best thing I could do was withdraw DS. I looked at another school who said that if their 1 place went, I could appeal and would get it as the LA knew the problem.

Eventually, the 2 boys (victims) at the centre of the bullying left. Suddenly, they were broken down into small groups and there were loads of extra teachers and activities .

The head retired early a couple of years later, and there were lots of big changes.

I still regret not having the courage to go against DH and take him out.

The main bullies did a lot worse than a few bruises here and there and did not get past the 'threat of lunchtime exclusion' stage.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the idea that 4 year olds are incapable of bulling. I was a small child, and in my first year at school, (so nearly 5) i vividly remember a girl in my year getting me on the playground floor, kneeling on my shoulders, & repeatedly banging my head on the floor. She had a reputation as a bully all the way through school & was the primary reason I was sent to a school in a different town - as absolutely nothing was done. I know that things are different now, & she must have had serious issues to have behaved like that, but 4 year olds can definitely be bullies.

This will be 10 yrs or so ago now. But I know there was one child in a class at a local primary school that was 'trouble' even in Nursery. Meant that several children didn't even start their intended school - their nearest. Over the years several others left. The child in question, no acknowledged SN afaik but a troubled background, hurt other children threw chairs and spat at a teacher etc. They didn't do enough to be permanently excluded so the HT was stuck. (And came under criticism for doing nothing.) Ironically if the child had been excluded they would likely have then been moved to the next nearest school - the one all the parents had sent their DCs to get away from them. Then at secondary they all met up again...child has been excluded several times and is on the way to a permanent exclusion (haven't asked recently but they may have been by now)
...and their younger sibling is apparently as bad - not so explosive but has been bullying at least one child -really prolonged, nasty stuff (using social media as well) and threatens violence from older sibling...nice.
As I see it is the problem isn't with the schools really - there is little they can do unless the child in question really steps over the boundaries and they can permanently exclude. (although there is an argument that the one I am talking about did and the HT maybe took this child's background into consideration too much at the expense of the the other children and staff). The problem really is with the policy of inclusion ...but then what do you do with seriously disturbed children?

Can totally believe this, I had the same happen to me when I was at school. Not only did the school push me out, they phoned another potential school to discourage them from accepting me as a new pupil. All this after the bullies had physically attacked me and my friends and received an afternoon off school as a reward punishment. The bullies dominated the tone of the school, most of the teachers were equally intimidated and just sucked up to them. My head of year, who took no interest in what was happening to me and my friends, has since written a book on bullying and having a very soft approach to it. I don't blame the bullies, but I think the school seriously neglected their duty of care.

I do believe that the school my son went to did neglect their duty of care to my son. They put all their effort, time and compassion into the bully and did nothing for my son. It meant the bully had a free pass to run riot. I don't know whether the head was incredibly naive or scared of the parents of the bully maybe?? She definitely knew how the system worked however - ie. asking us to leave gets rid of a potential complainer.

The head also had a soft approach to bullying. It's crazy your head of year wrote a book about it. I have come across people in authority before who are so sure a certain approach works they are completely blinded by, or refuse to listen to, any evidence that this may not be the case!

I agree it must be difficult for teachers to deal with seriously disturbed children in extreme cases. In my case though I couldn't see that they were doing anything to protect the 100 other pupils they had in the school from this one nasty boy.

I appreciate all your posts, it confirms my suspicions about the Head's invite for us to leave and her motivations for it. Although I'm sorry that your children and yourselves have had to go through similar experiences.

My DD was bullied in primary school in the 1980s and this is exactly the approach her school took - they asked me to take her out of school.

A year or so later they had her manning the school office because they hadn't any appropriate work for her in class.

And then they found out which schools she was applying to for secondary and they couldn't find her arse fast enough and start licking. Not literally, obviously, or I'd have made a complaint...

Francesca - you weren't asked to move your child, you were simply reminded that moving your child is one of the options open to you.

The headteacher of my school often reminds parents that they have this option and right, alongside discussing strategies that the school might put into place in a variety of circumstances.

Is the incident you are talking about a single incident? If it was, then it is NOT bullying. It is a very unpleasant incident, but it is NOT bullying.

I really dislike the way you are talking about the child/ren concerned ie. "Seriously disturbed" "nasty boy". You are talking about 4 year old children. you don't know whether any of them had additional needs which may have contributed to this unfortunate incident.

Your assertion that the headteacher is getting rid of certain parents in order to get a good OFSTED is frankly laughable.

Littlefish,

You have misquoted me and misunderstood:

I DID NOT call any 4 year old children seriously disturbed I was responding to an earlier post. It had NOTHING to do with the attack on my son.

No other 4 year old children were involved in the attack on my son. I NEVER stated that they were.

I am WELL AWARE of the problems my son's main attacker had as the headteacher explained them to me in detail.

And yes I AM AWARE how you define bullying. My son was BULLIED which culminated in an extremely serious attack.

Are you really saying that after many many months, on a forum where I am pretty much anonymous and after dealing with a dreadful situation I cannot refer to my son's main attacker in such a mild term as nasty?

You had every right to add to this thread and voice your opinion on the subject I had broached. I am very sorry that you then decided to write the things you did.

Anecdotally this happened at our last school too - there was one particular child who had some pretty full on behaviour issues, in the year group below ours, and it was a single intake school, and nothing was done that had any real impact, and in Y3 my friend took her son out because he couldn't take any more of being attacked by this child.

Many other children were removed also - and then the child himself was removed and went to a private school, but by then the damage was done.

It's a very short sighted position to adopt as a school when you are allowing children to leave who are in essence victims, while the perpetrating child is allowed to stay.

Gud the problem is the school can't just ask children to leave... they can exclude etc but they have to have good reason - go through a process - it is not just on the whim of the HT (if they could I should imagine there are some children/parents they would love to get rid of!)

They can try to deal with the 'problem' child's behaviour - which maybe down to SN etc -makes things even more difficult...but their hands are tied to a degree.
Think about it - if you were a HT who would you rather have in your school - the victims or the bully...which is easiest, which causes least problems...

Fair enough - I do understand there isn't a simple way to 'get rid' of a child who might be being appalling to various other children, but to allow it to go unchecked for so long seems negligent.

I have to admit I don't know what might have been in place. But it was a long, long time that her son was suffering and I hope that isn't inevitable for other children in similar situations.

Think about it - if you were a HT who would you rather have in your school - the victims or the bully...which is easiest, which causes least problems...*

The bully. You remove 1 victim the bully will eventually target another child. Until you have no other pupils left!

From your earlier post - "I agree it must be difficult for teachers to deal with seriously disturbed children in extreme cases". Whether these were your words or not, you chose to repeat them.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post regarding the age of the other child.

If the headteacher explained the difficulties of the other child, and they did have additional needs, then I would hope that any parent would be more understanding.

You did not mention in your original post that any other incidents led up to this. Several other people pointed out that a single incident is not bullying and yet you have chosen to criticise me for it.

Actually, I think that referring to a child as "nasty" is not a mild term at all. I work with many, many children who have behavioural difficulties for one reason or another and would not describe a single one of them as "nasty". "hurt", "neglected", "needing additional support", "sad", "confused", "overwhelmed" yes. But"nasty". No.

You're right, I have every right to voice my opinion on the subject in hand. That is what a forum like mumsnet is for. I was not rude to you, I simply gave you my opinion.

You are obviously, understandably upset by what has happened to your ds. I hope that you have found a new school and that your ds has settled in well.

I simply do not agree with you that my words are too harsh. I am the mother of a child who was viciously attacked - believe me using the word 'nasty' to describe his attacker is mild.

Also, you are incorrect when you suggest I did not gain a deeper level of understanding when told about the boy's background. In fact, I did several things to protect him and show sympathy towards him after the attack.

I wouldn't expect an professional in education to describe a child as "nasty" but I could easily forgive the parent who's child has been systematically bullied by said child to describe them so. We can't be magnanimous all the time.

The LEA needs a basic short written record of why you left the school. Did you give them one?

If the parents who have left don't speak up nothing will change.

I know two primary schools like this

From experience, the schools I know that are well known for bullying have heads that are bullies themselves or have too weaker leadership to challenge and remedy the issue.

It's fine to describe a child's behaviour as nasty

I am having a similar issue with my Son at his school, he's year one. He came how with a 'bumped head' note yesterday, I asked the teacher what had happened. She didn't know, because it happened at lunch. I asked DS who is 5, he said three ganged up on him, and kicked him in the head. When I approached the school this morning I was told he bumped his head on the climbing frame and was given a cold compress. The marks on my sons head in two places, and still red the next day. I have already filed in his paperwork to move to another school this afternoon and am considering home educating him in the mean time.

Schools lie. Teachers lie, because dealing with bullying is a lot more work than they want to deal with. Our problems are the lunch room ladies are more interested in gossiping than watching the children.