Do FFers get enough support?

[FairMidden]

Here

Interesting article - I wonder what the experiences of MNers are?

Clare Byam-Cook, "breastfeeding expert", is at it again I see.

No, what they mean is that people need impartial factual information about formula which is very different.

Ican't bear the weasel word 'support'.Pretty soon people will be bleating about lack of support for arse wiping.

Pigletmania, your SIL probably wouldn't be able to pop the baby on the breast if she has been bottle feeding EBM all these months. The baby would very likely refuse.

Actually, Moondog, now you say that...

Absolutely, moondog.

When told to top up I expected to be able to find all the information regarding ingredients, which reports as to which is the best nutritionally for the baby etc etc.

Nothing, just a claim on every other can that its 'nearest to breastmilk' or full of 'immunofortis' whatever the fark that is!

Why is a woman that exclusively expresses and feeds her child a problem? If she's happy, the baby is happy where is the issue? Sounds like a fantastic commitment to me and she should be congratulated rather than given well meaning advice?

Agree with the support comment moondog, facts and information about all aspects of feeding would be great. I'd like to think I'm intelligent enough not to let the mention of the word 'bottle brush' influence the decision on how I feed my baby!

I was determind to EBF my DD when she was born, unfortunately nature conspired against me - emergency c-section, followed by DD in neonatal and my wound reopening all led to a nightmare beginning. I then continued to BF, she had reflux and was quite big and wriggley, wound reopened again and I went back into hospital and so at about 6 weeks gave in to FF as I just physically found holding and BF-ing very hard and was exhausted from expressing.
MY HV was very shocked that I made the decision to FF (although consultant told me having a stressed mummy + baby was not helping either of us and "giving in" to FF would not be seen as me being the mummy from hell) and basically told me to get on with it. Although I know that there is info on the tin and MN helped me greatly with the making etc., going from Bfeeding on demand to trying to feed on demand when FFing was a nightmare. I had no idea how much to make up in each bottle and spent at least the first week either vastly overmaking or undermaking.
Whilst I wish I had perservered longer, even if it meant more wound openings, I found it very tough to not have any support. Also when going to the local children's centre for mum and baby, baby massage etc I found that sometimes people looked at me like I was mad when I was FFing her, I know this is a very small minority of people and that I was being oversensitive, but at a time when I was feeling like world's worst mum, this didn't help. DD is now 17 weeks and I'm gradually feeling that I have disadvantaged her, but still think there is room for some support within the NHS.

i think there jsut needs to be more support to parents FULL stop.

i bfed ds1 for 18mths, ds2 till he was nearly 4yrs old and ds3 till he was 3 and a half yrs old.

however with ds4 i got to about 3mthsish? and it was a nightmare, i was exhausted, suffering from horrendous post natal depression which was left untreated and i ended up with post natal psychosis and a week in a psych hospital.

i stopped bfeeding ds4 and had NO clue what to do with bottles, had to go and buy everything that we needed, including a microwave as having bought a microwave sterilser we then discovered the timer on our microwave didnt work

i went with an organic formula purely because the ingredients list wasnt quite so terrifying as that on aptimil etc and i figured organic has to be better?

but to be honest i wasnt in a fit state to be doing ANYTHING let alone trying to start bottlefeeding, i was offered no help, tho my hv agreed it seemed a good idea, she just told me to follow the instruction on the packet.

i was lucky that a friend bottlefed and she came round to help me out for a day or so until i knew what i was doing.

Ultimately tho ifi had been diagnosed with pnd/psp sooner and got the support i needed before ending up in hospital then i believe i would have been able to bfeed ds4 as i did my elder three, something i feel angry and upset about now, a year later.

Well earplugs I agree with you, there is no problem with any mother choosing to express and bottle feed (though I believe the WHO recognises BF direct as the best source for the baby). There should be no snobbery about it. Anyone thinking of doing it instead of BF direct should be warned that it is farking hard work though, combining the worst aspects of bottle and breast feeding and then adding in a few difficulties of its own. Some mothers seem to think it will be the answer to their prayers, but the reality is that it is grim. IMO that is (having done it for 18m for DS1 breast refusnik extremo)

Whilst I agree that BF should be promoted, I also think that there is inadequate information available to mothers who choose to FF. When I asked I was given one (not very good to say the least..) leaflet, and told to just read it and look on the back of the tin. At a time when I had developed PND through problems succeeding with BF, this was really unhelpful. Once a woman has made the decision to move to formula I think she should be supported and provided with useful info.

I had to get proper advice from a friend, and through doing my own research on the internet. I find it bizarre that the NHS does not provide more factual information and advice on FF. I know that this would be seen as discouraging BF, but surely there is a risk of mothers over/underfeeding babies without it?

I realise that this view may not suit everyone in favour of BF! But as someone who really wanted to BF, I think its useful to share experiences..

Aoife, can you elaborate on this? Did you have any comments? Do you know this to be a fact or is it an opinion?

'I found that sometimes people looked at me like I was mad when I was FFing herI found that sometimes people looked at me like I was mad when I was FFing her.'

4madboys, what precisely do you mean by this? Cannyou expand?

'I think there jsut needs to be more support to parents FULL stop'.

As for there being insufficient support for FF, well I have never heard anyone complain that they wanted to FF but couldn't get the support so they had to BF instead (light hearted, honest)

I dug out my "birth to five" book the other day and it had very clear directions on safe formula feeding. Is this not given out to all pg mothers? I had assumed it was.

i think impartial advice re formula and the correct advice on how to make up a bottle would be helpful

but for as long as formula companies can advertise and encourage HCPs to recommend their brand, it ain't gonna happen!

i would say use the brand of formula that has the least ingredients, is organic and available easily.

and buy cartons for the first few days and weeks if you can afford it

i can't give anything CBC says any credence at all however

bymore support ful stop, i mean more support from hv's and midwives who dont discharge you after less than two weeks care.

bfeeding counsellors more readily available, and drop in clinics where you can get helpw ith bfeeding.

particularly more help with post natal illness, i was passed around from pillar to post, gp, hv, counsellor and all of them thought the others were dealing with me when essentially none of them were.

i went backward and forward to gp, hv numerous times only to be told that he was my 4th baby and i should be fine and know what i was doing.

the reality was that i wasnt sleeping, i was paranoid, anxious, aggitated and on the verve of a breakdown.

this was all MISSED, it wasnt until i tried to KILL myself AND my baby the the gp took notice and that day i had the emergeancy psych round was admitted to hospital.

since then my care has been ok, my psych is great and the mh team were good, i have a homestart volunteer and had help from ss, but we had to PUSH and fight for help.

the gp's are useless, they have all basically said they dont know what to do and passed me on to a diff gp who has then said the same thing. one just gave me a repeat script and said come back in 6mths, this is when i was still suicidal, self harming and had only been out of hospital less than a month.

parenting is HARD, i love it but it is hard work and when you are isolated from family etc you need help.

I'm very sorry you had such a bad time.
I don't think however we can or should expect govt. organisations to resond to our every need. We need to look for that from our own circle.

no they shouldnt help with our every need, but they SHOULD notice when parent are so obviously floundering, as far as my hv and gp were concerned i had done it all before and been fine, so i should be this time.

i wasnt, they didnt even carry out the edinburgh post natal test which would have given them some idea of how i was feeling.

all they cared about was that the baby was gaining weight, which he was.

the fact that i was tearing my hair out, literlly, didnt matter.

my dp was beggging for help (he works with ss so knows the system) and my mum who is a nurse had to have contact with the psych unit to get them to make sure i had contact with my kids etc and so that i had a proper care plan.

i am not asking them to come and do my houswork ffs, but they should help a family in crisis and if it had been dealt with earlier it wouldnt have got to that stage.

and we dont all have a 'circle' i had moved house recently, am away from family and was shutting myself off from friends due to the illness.

4madboys it is certainly not unreasonable for any mother to expect physical or mental health problems of that magnitude to be picked up and dealt with properly. You were let down badly there.

indeed bibelots

sorry to go on, but it is a subject close to me and i do really believe that there is a lack of support to new parents, i had my first at university and didnt know anyone with babies, and certainly no one who bfed. i was lucky to make a fab group of friends, we all bfed and co slept etc, it kept us all sane and ten yrs later we are all still friends. but there really was nothing they could do to help me, i was just too ill.

a year on and i am getting better, SLOWLY, but in the future i would like to help make sure it doesnt happen to anyone else.

i have lost a over a year of my life and more importantly, a year of my childrens lives, that i will never get back

from what i have read too many people fall through the cracks, it shouldnt be like that.

Well to be a little controversial here I sort of agree with the articles ethos. I had made a firm decision to FF before I gave birth and when I discussed this with the midwives in hospital although they did not discourage me they did not encourage me.

I was in hospital for 10 days (antenatal issues)prior to the birth of my baby and I noticed this was consistent for all postnatal women who were FF.

When I had given birth I was required to stay 24 hours in hospital because of blood pressure issues but I left ASAP. Anyway I was basically asked have you ever bottle fed a baby before? I said yes but a larger child over 10 years ago (nephew is now 11 and was BF until 6 months then bottle fed). The midwife then told me where they kept up bottled made up formula milk and teats and told to put the bottles on the counter to be disposed of by recycling.

They did not give me any advice on how often or how much my baby should have on the first night - I just read the info on the bottles and used my own judgement, I figured he was very small and would only take a small amount so I fed him until he stopped, I remembered I have to burp him which I did by resting him on his back and then sitting him up - this way the burp came out naturally. For the first night we did really well one ours own, no-one came to us at all and the baby fed well. However the woman next to me in the ward was BF - she had so many problems and a screaming baby that she had midwives constantly with her supporting her.

Whilst I did not need help I feel sure that midwives are less able to support a FF mum than a BF mum not their fault but their hands are tied.

heartmoonshadow - I think it's reasonable to feel you needed more info and support on that first night...you were ok but many women would not be. In fact, it would be better, IMO, if ff mothers were supported to offer their baby skin to skin care when feeding, if they knew about responding to feeding cues, if they knew not to let too many people feed them in the early weeks, and to be sure they know about how to make up a bottle with the new guidance.

In addition, they should also know they can change their minds and breastfeed after all if they want to.

Very few ff mothers get all of that, but it's pretty basic stuff which would only take 10 or 15 mins to explain.

"There needs to be good, clear advice on sterilisation, making up feeds and how much to give."

What, like the sort of instructions that you can find printed on every tin of formula?

No, sabire - not like that. It needs to be proper advice with explanations of why each step is important, and why 'average volumes' on the side of the tin may not apply to an individual baby, support so an individual mother knows how it will work in her kitchen with her equipment, and it needs to be verbalised.

out of interest, how many of you who have commented on this ff and how many bf??

ds was ff from day 6 and i had absolutely no advice or support from the midwife or hv. the support stopped when the bf stopped. even though ds was projectile vomitting on a daily basis and i was clearly struggling with which formula to give, whether to try a different one, change the bottles, the teats etc. i wasn't gven a leaflet and no one told me there was one on the internet. i went to baby clinic and cried, i rang the hv and cried and still no one offered the advice i was needing.

IME once that you start FF, you are on your own. No advice whatsoever despite of the medical needs of the child.

IME the only information you get when you ask for advice is: "all formulas are very simmilar and nutritionally correct". Which is crap, honestly, if you could go back to BF you would but unfortunately you can't. And many health visitors, gps and even paediatricians are afraid of expressing their views of what they have got to learn or kno of their differences as they are afraid, rightly, of being accused of promoting the use of formula.