My local Waitrose are selling baby cereal that says on the packet it can be added to bottles from four months

[AnarchyAunt]

Its this stuff and the packet carries instructions on making up a bottle feed of cereal mixed with full fat milk, from four months.

What do I quote to the manager when I go in there to complain later? Or is it technically legal despite being v v dangerous?

it's just very smooth and they have interesting cereals such as millet (whcih is gluten free), and a 3 cereals mix which sounds v good too. also they do a semolina porridge which is very handy when you don't want to cook semolina for hours.

Bienchen- not sure whether the fact that Hipp is german as opposed to Swiss makes it very different from Holle? though i do agree that they have better translators LOL

as many others have said- in almost every european country it is standard practice to add cereal to bottles after 6 months. recognising that the Uk is always ahead and better etc etc perhaps (perhaps) it would be good to give 90% of other europeans the benefit of the doubt and not automatically label them as baby poisoners???

To clarify - lactose is sugar. Milk sugar. Lactulose is a different thing, a fibre given to ease constipation. They're different.

And re: adding sugar to the cereal and cow's milk ... actually, lactose is the least problematic ingredient here - it's something that's actually in breast milk (in large quantities! have you tasted that stuff!).

Cereal in bottles is gross and weird - choking risk and obesity risk. I'm just making sure people are freaking out relevantly ...

No alctose in my breastmilk (- I cant have any casein until I stop bf- one smidge of butter and he screams for 4 hours)

But- I thought the cows milk lactose didnt pass through so much, but casein did? Hs that changed then as advice?

Beforesunrise, have never cooked semolina for hours . I heat milk in the microwave, to boiling point, then add the very fine semolina, bring back to boil, have to watch like a hawk it does not boil over, simmer for a minute or so and then let cool off to heat.
I only do it that way because I'm too lazy to wash/scrape saucepans with milky puddings. We had semolina pudding sometimes before bedtime

Peachy, there's defo lactose in your breastmilk. It's milk sugar - it's in the milk from all mammals. You make it - you don't get it from ingesting milk products. (It's normally milk proteins, not sugars, that babies are allergic to - problems with lactose are generally intolerance, manifesting with gut issues, around the age of 7.)

There's no 'cow's milk lactose'. There's just lactose. Sugar. We digest the sugar we get from cow's milk, we make our own sugar for our milk.

If a child is old enough to eat cereal (which I don't think at 4mo they are!), surely they're old enough to take it from a spoon . You may as well liquidise all foods for children and plug them into a drip. If they're not ready for a spoon then then they're not ready for 'food' IMHO.

I use Holle cereals for my DD and did notice a while ago that there were instructions on the back of the box for adding to bottles. i just ignored it as my DD is breastfed anyway and assumed it must be the done thing in Germany ( where it says it's made on the box). This isnt an isolated case though. Ive also got another box of organic cereal by a brand called Biobim ( a dutch company) that has instuctions on the back for adding to bottles. So its obviously widely done in other european countries.

Ah clearly been given dodgy info- although its casein (protein) that mine react to- its an intol but a severe one (if you saynintol people think oh no just a heqadache; potentially it could be fatal due to the diarrhoea etc in the baby, iyswim)

I tried a Holle oat cereal for DS in an attempt to avoid Nestle, or cereals with added sugar or chocolate, which is the norm here in Spain. Despite being very expensive brand here, and only available in health food shops, I was disappointed, it was utterly utterly revolting stuff.

DS agreed.

Dear all,

I'm going to post and run, as I have to be home from work soon, but please do ponder this one ladies! I have had this reply from Holle, in response to my email, which is at the bottom. I have read as far as "WHO deals with developing countries, blah, blah."

Could anyone help me out with a reply? I'll be back this evening, or hopefully this afternoon.

Did anyone else get a reply>

Annner

Dear Annner,

Thank you for your Mail and your opinion.

The WHO recommendation is to exclusively breastfeed for 6 months and to
start feeding complementary food at the beginning of the 7th month. Some
European institutions e.g. the Department of Health in the UK orientate
strictly on the WHO recommendations, others don?t.

The recommendation of the WHO is generally good but it does not meet the
needs of all infants. If breastfeeding alone is not enough, an additional
feeding of formula or complementary food is necessary. In Switzerland,
Germany and other European countries the official recommendations are not as
strict as by the WHO. This is because the WHO recommendations where primary
made for developing countries where often there is no access to clean
potable water. In areas where potable water is not available, the early
feeding of infant formula or prepared complementary foods is a serious
health risks for infants. This reason is not given in countries with high
hygiene standards as the European countries.

In Article 8 of the Commission Directive 2006/125/EC on processed
cereal-based foods and baby foods for infants and young children, the
earliest age for baby food, others than infant formulas, is clearly defined:
?The stated age (for infant foods) shall not be less than four months for
any product.? This European regulation is revised in 2006 with impact from
the latest scientific knowledge. This regulation is superior in countries of
the European Union than the varying advices by national institutions.

Complementary feeding should be started in the period, when a child is
between 5 - 7 months old (from 4 months - from 6 months), depending on the
babies individual needs. With 7 months, usually the quantity of energy and
some micronutrients e.g. iron are deficient if breast milk or infant formula
is feed alone. But children are not standardised (length and weight vary in
a big scale) also appetite and hunger and the skill of eating do not always
occur as feeding schedules tell us. Some children are well nourished with
breast milk alone, within the age of 8 or 9 months; others need
complementary food before they are 6 months old. Since not all children are
satisfied being feed only milk in the first half year of life, many European
institutions, providing information?s of infant nutrition and also the new
EU regulations give a soft time target for the introduction of complementary
foods. Hence, the early feeding age ?after 4 months?, as it is in many
countries, is reasonable. Attached to this mail I send you a time table
published by the German Society of Nutrition (Deutsche Gesellschaft für
Ernährung (DGE)) and Research Institute for Children Nutrition in Dortmund
(Germany) (Forschungsinstitut für Kinderernährung in Dortmund (FKE)) Please
also read the recommendations of the European Society for Prediatric
Gastroenterology Hepatology and Nutrition (ESPGHAN) written to the EU
Commission regarding the revision of directive 91/321/EEC; attached to this
mail. These recommendations are based on the latest scientific data's (in
European countries) and are much younger than the WHO recommendation (for
developing countries) which exists since decades.

At this time there are no scientific data's available which give a hint to
negative health effects when feeding complementary food from 4 months on
compared with the feeding from 6 months on. Regarding allergies and the
occurrence of the celiac syndrome some studies even indicate that the
feeding of complementary food (containing gluten) from 4 months on and
breastfeeding at the same time, seems to be most beneficial. Breast feeding
is the best for a baby. To start feeding complementary food (and not
exclusively breast feed) does not mean to wean a baby.

Nutritional guidelines do change from time to time according to the latest
knowledge. Unfortunately, often old and new guidelines are available at the
same time and some guidelines have a special background which is not
considered or even known. If you have further questions, please feel free to
contact me directly.

With best regards
Viele Grüsse

Angelika Welz
Qualitätsmanagement

Holle baby food GmbH
Baselstrasse 11, 4125 Riehen
Schweiz / Switzerland

Tel.: +41 (0)61 64596 07
Fax: +41 (0)61 64596 09
Mail: [email protected]

www.holle.ch - www.babyclub.de - www.biolini.de
Handelsregister Kanton Basel-Stadt, CH-270.4.001.683-6
Geschaeftsfuehrer: Peter Kropf, Udo Fischer

-Original Message-
From: Annner
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: HOLLE ORGANIC 3 GRAIN PORRIDGE

Re: HOLLE ORGANIC 3 GRAIN PORRIDGE

Dear Sirs,

I was horrified to see the following on your web site:

"Therefore, Holle recommends exclusive breastfeeding during the first 4-6
months"

The WHO, which bases its recommendations on the best research-based medical
knowledge, recommends exclusive breastfeeting during the first 6 months. You
as a manufacturer do not have any right to make recommendations to parents,
particularly when they have no legitimate basis other than your sales
targets. That people have used this type of product for young babies in the
past does not make it an advisable habit.

A small number of babies may be ready for solids before then, and certainly
not before 17 weeks, but they do not reflect the norm.

THere are risks associated with early weaning and you have a duty to point
these out. Moreover, your product contains gluten, which is expressly
advised as being unsuitable for babies younger than six months.

Please reassure me that you will be amending the information provided on
your weaning foods.

Yours faithfully,

Annner
CC Waitrose - stockists of your products in the UK

My mil used to chidmind, and the mum of one baby she loked after wanted all kinds of stuff aded to his bottle (including rice)MIL says she couldn't do that to a child so used to put the rice down the sink at each feed!

"Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to your enquiry whilst we investigated your concerns with the manufacturer.

The buyer and Technologist had a meeting with the supplier ( Holle Baby Food ) and
expressed our concerns about your enquiry and the bottom line is that we have found that we need to change the packaging accordingly.

The Department of Health in the UK stipulates a minimum age of 6 months on the packaging where the EU stipulates 4 months and this is where the problem has originated from. There is obviously a conflict here in terms of agreement of what should go
on pack depending on where the product is sold.

We have agreed with the supplier that because the products are being sold in the UK, they must carry a minimum age warning of 6 months and the packaging will be changed accordingly from Feb 09 onwards"

This is the reply I have had today from Waitrose.

Well done AnarchyAunt!

That's a good response re changing the packaging to 6mo, but they haven't said if they are going to address the bit about adding it to a bottle.

Are you going to go back to them on that point?

Oh yes

They seem to have totally ignored my point in the original complaint, ie the choking risk.

Just sent this back to them

'Thank you for your reply, however I feel I must draw your attention to the detail of my complaint which was as follows -

"I have noticed that my local branch (xxxxx) has started to stock Holle Baby cereals/porridges. On the packet these state that they are suitable as a bottle feed for babies from four months, and give instructions to mix with fresh milk and sugar to give in a bottle.

I would like to draw your attention to the serious risk of choking if anything other than milk is fed from a bottle. This is well known and is the advice of the NHS, Food Standards Agency, Dept of Health and many other organisations, including every other baby food company that retails in the UK. To feed cereals in a bottle could result in the death of a baby "

I appreciate your decision to change the packaging to reflect the current age recommendations but the main issue that to feed cereals in a bottle can lead to choking has not been addressed. Will the instructions to feed in a bottle be removed? I feel that as a responsible retailer Waitrose has a duty to its customers to avoid tacit endorsement of practices that have documented risks associated, particularly where babies are concerned.'

Well done you! It's very encouraging that they are going to change the packaging - I wonder will that happen to all foods that say suitable from 4 months? It gives out a very confusing message I think. Good for you for following up teh choking thing as well - v worrying!
In response to Angelika's letter:
"To start feeding complementary food (and not
exclusively breast feed) does not mean to wean a baby. "
Sorry Angelika but it does! Weaning starts as soon as the baby starts to take anything other than breastmilk.

Another update on this saga - Waitrose have still not got back to me on my last email, two months later. The cereal is still on sale in the local branch with the same instructions to make up as a bottle feed from four months.

I am going to email them again to see what they are intending to do.

AnarchyAunt, why don't you contact the FOod Standards Agency yourself? Get hold of a packet of this crap and circle the relevant information?
I don't think you will get a positive response from the company.

Would the FSA do anything though? I could forward them all the emails and a copy of the instructions from the website - not paying £2.95 for a packet of it!

I just came across this thread as I am approaching weaning. It is interesting how heated up this debate was. I lived on the Continent until ten years ago and Iam familiar with different practices re child rearing. Why do we Brits assume that we know best? Personally I am more prone to trust German standards of food and cosmmetics both baby food and general) than British and I am not even German. Millions of babies thrive on practices condemned in this thread and altough it would be helpful to ammend the instructions on packaging to reflect the advice in this country, I do not think why such a fuss over it. Let's just get over it.

lidushka, it isn't a british thing it's a World Health Organisation 'thing' backed up by tons of peer reviewed studies which I am more than happy to send you the information regarding should you wish to view it. Exclusive BF up to 6 months and beyond reduces the risk of:

For baby:
Cot death
Obesity and overweight
High blood pressure
High cholesterol level
Eczema
Diabetes
Leukaemia
Asthma

For mum:

Breast cancer
Ovarian cancer
Type 2 diabetes
Postnatal depression

And that's just what I can remember off the top of my head. It's cheap and it's safe.

However, it is every parents choice what they should feed their child after considering the facts.

dxx

bump for lidushka