breastfeeding for a week now... not sure how much more I can take

[star6]

Hi there,
I was advised by the lovely ladies on my october antenatal thread to post here. They have been incredibly helpful and supportive, so I have not given up just yet. DS typically feeds for 30-45 minutes on one side. It's incredibly draining. The latch is not perfect. In fact it's horrible. I wince in pain when he latches on. I follow all of the advice from the bf counsellor, midwives and websites but he just refuses to take it unless it's that same painful latch!! have red scabbed over spots on tip of both nipples now and feeling engorged quite often.
Questions:
How long does a baby usually feed from each breast for? Do you usually offer both with each feed?

Is there any way to get him to latch better? He seems just so stubborn with it...

It's day 9 now and the sides of my breasts (the outer part) is very sore to the touch (not red or anything, just sore). Is that normal?

I'm hand expressing a bit when they become engorged and even pumping with electric pump while he feeds on the other side to relieve it sometimes... any other ways to treat engorgement?

When I lay down to try to sleep my whole body feels like one big headache, especially my legs, everything throbbing (maybe I'm just overdoing it with housework?) How dangerous IS it REALLY to take more than 8 paracetmol within a 24 hour period?

Sorry for the essay... I'm a bit of a mess. Really weepy and difficulty controlling emotions as well.

[lizzytee]

at your midwife. This is a very undermining and inaccurate thing to say to you, particularly given all you have described.

For the following reasons:
Your ds's tummy at 10 days old is tiny - somewhere between the size of a large marble and a ping-pong ball. 20-25mls doesn't look like a lot when it is in a 125ml bottle, but it is plenty.
You are still establishing your supply, and your ds is still learning how to feed. Yes, some women do have more milk than a baby needs at the beginning, but most of us don't. Which makes lots of sense if you think that we have evolved to feed our infants efficiently - ie to make as much as needed, not too much.
Plus, how much you can express (especially at this early stage) is not a reliable guide as babies are generally much better at getting milk than pumps are. 10-15 minutes is a very short period in which to express in any case, particularly at this early stage.

Trust your instincts on this one. The nappies don't lie.

[lizzytee]

Errrr why is your ds size a "problem"? As long as he is gaining weight, peeing and pooing then he's on the right track.

The stuff about having to eat certain foods to promote supply is not accurate- all research shows that diet has very little effect on supply or nutritional content of mother's milk, with a few exceptions unlikely to occur in Western diets. By all means eat cake if you want to though.

[tiktok]

star, the midwife's advice is truly horrifying - prob not what you want to hear when you are already low and under-confident, but what she has told you is not only wrong, it actively harms breastfeeding. When the dust settles, you might want to complain about her.

The facts are pretty clear - expressing does not let you know how much your baby takes at any one time, and does not even tell you how much is available. Eating more, or eating more fatty things, does not make you make more milk. You can get references to support these facts on www.kellyom.com but there is also info in the mumsnet archives. One poster's mw told her to eat cream cakes, and she complained about her and was told the mw in question had been spoekn to (you could find this story if you used the words 'cream cakes' in searching the archives, I think )

Why is this harmful to bf?Because it affects your confidence and your 'feel good' factor about bf, and this leads to formula feeding - which is something she also suggested you might do

[WheresTheAuPair]

at your midwife- you sound like you're hanging on just fine. Not sure if anyone has suggested it but have you got a breastfeeding pillow? This really helped me get the positioning right and stop me from hunching over and getting sore. I had terrific problems BFing DS and it took a good 4-6 weeks for us both to get the hang of it (and mastitis and a frozen shoulder on the way!)

It does get easier- I promise!

[TheProvincialLady]

Star - am so glad to read you 'just' have a cold and not an infection/mastitis. I was worried about you when you didn't post again!

Your MW needs some retraining

[star6]

Thanks for support everyone. much appreciated! HV was here from 2.30 and ds gained 3/4 of a pound in 5 days (had lost 100g a few days after birth but thats normal im told) and ive been exclusively bf! So feeling great about that. no need for formula

Any ideas of how to get baby to stay awake and feed? He sometimes takes ages because weak sucking then dozing.... weak sucking....dozing....etc.

[TinkerBellesMum]

They say that eating and drinking don't help, but I think chocolate does, it's a great way to relax

I was pumping using hospital grade pumps every four hours and couldn't keep up with her supply, once she realised she could go straight to the tap she refused to be NG fed anymore. Pumps are often rubbish so don't worry about how much you get out. Also remember that your breasts are like taps, not bottles. Putting a baby or pump there will keep them flowing, they won't empty out.

I'll vouch for cluster feeds, although we tended to have awhile between them and then she would go mad for three days (45mins on, 15 off). The best thing to do is have everything you need to hand, loads of pillows to pile up on your lap and just sit there while he feeds. Have lots of chocolate (and other easy snacks ) and bottles of drinks so that you don't need to move.

[tiktok]

star, you baby is dozing and feeding and that is normal, and clearly he is thriving like crazy There is no need to give suggestions for stopping him dozing and feeding because there is no need to change this behaviour. It won't last forever

Changing babies' behaviour from what they want to do, when what they want to do is proving so successful, leads to distress and frustration for mother and child, so...um....what's the point?

[star6]

you're right tiktok. DH and I were given a book called contented baby or something like that and this woman is going on about things like going in and feeding without making any eye contact or talking and drawing curtains and putting in cot swaddled (ds HATES being swaddled!)... DH thinks schedule is needed... I agree... but this just give me a bad feeling. And I have a degree in child psychology...

[NorthernLurker]

You can't 'schedule' a newborn baby because he hasn't read the schedule and doesn't know what he's supposed to keep to! You might want to point that out to your dh
It sounds like you are doing a great job. My dd1 used to take at least 45 mins to feed. It was hard going but then at 3 mths she suddenly changed and went to 20 minutes maxium. of course I panicked then and thought there was something wrong with her...
Have you tried using a pillow to feed? I have always used one and found it an absolute boon. If you are feeding for a long time it has the added plus that you can have a hand free for a book, remote control or chocolate!
Just hang in there - this will all get easier. If your dh is anxious though maybe you should set him up on here and he can ask his own questions and benefit from the wisdom of mumsnet

[star6]

thanks, yeah tomorrow I think I'm going to look for one of those lima bean shaped pillows maybe they will have one at mothercare. looks cozy! I want to figure out how to do it in public as well, though...
what's the best sort of pillow to get (that doesn't cost a fortune ).
I do NOT like this book at ALL. Everything that I know about developing secure attachment is totally disregarded by this woman!! If I follow this routine, he will grow up with an attachment disorder, I'm sure of it.
We tried one of the routines of putting him in bed and feeding silently and I cried the whole time because just felt so disconnected from my tiny new baby

[star6]

Heading to bed now to start the sleep feed sleep feed sleep feed routine... he's been sleeping on my chest mostly even though moses basket is right next to bed... i know it's dangerous but he just cries when I put him in moses basket!

[TinkerBellesMum]

Burn it or strap it to a rocket...

[NorthernLurker]

co sleeping isn't dangerous as long as neither of you are drunk, on drugs or unnaturally tired. You need to watch his temperature and keep duvet and pillows a very long way away. I had dd2 and dd3 in bed with us for a good while and it makes for a much better nights rest than putting them down and getting all upset when they get upset. My midwife told me that breastfeeding mothers in particular naturally curl round their baby and it was my hv who advised me to co-sleep with dd2.

[TinkerBellesMum]

TBH no need to buy pillows, you probably have plenty on your bed!

[BouncingTurtleSkulls]

Star6 - do you have a Dunelm Mill anywhere near you? I got a nice firm V-pillow and a pack of 2 pillowcases from there. I think it was less than £10. I found that help with feeding my ds in the early days.

Agree with other posters you have had some seriously crap advice

Newborns need to be demand fed, so keep on as you are doing. Do keep eating & drinking regularly, as other posters have said, it won't do anything to your milk supply, as long as your baby keeps feeding you'll produce plenty of milk for him. But if you don't take in enough nutrition you yourself will feel rubbish, and you do need the calories to aid your recovery from childbirth.

Keep up the good work

[Fleecy]

Hiya, just wanted to add I had bleeding nipples and really toe curling pain when first feeding DS when he was little. I remember thinking I couldn't keep going - it hurt so much sometimes and he never seemed to be full. I took it one feed at a time - so each time I thought I'd feed him just that once and see how we went. He's now six months and he still loves the boob.

I remember when we were about 10 days in I came on here and started trawling through the archives looking for threads on bf. I found loads of posts from people who had struggled with bf but had persevered and managed to continue. I remember thinking that was all well and good for them but I really wasn't sure i could do it. And here I am, still feeding six months down the line. If you're feeling the same, please don't. You're doing great - in fact, you sound like you're getting past the worst so please don't be disheartened.

I'd also recommend Lansinoh. Expensive but worth every penny - it starts to heal nipples very quickly and it lasts for ages so just the one tube should be all you need.

Also, DS used to feed for hours in the evening. I'd think he was done but then he'd cry again and I would be sat there wondering what the matter was, thinking he couldn't still be hungry - but he was. I'm clearly not the brightest as it took me ages to figure out whereas you seem to have got there rather quicker! But once I started to go with it, I actually found it a good excuse to put my feet up and rest. I suppose it's nature's way of making you sit down for a while instead of hoovering!

As others have said, it helps if you can feed lying down. It takes practise but it's worth persevering and you'll probably find it falls into place a little bit after you're comfortable with your upright feeding position. I used to put a pillow between my knees and another couple wedged up against my back to support me. Might be worth a try?

[flourybaps]

star6 Sorry dont have any wise words just wanted to say weel done you, you sound like your doing a great job. Your getting really good support and advice on here.

My dd is 4 months old and I stopped breastfeeding after a week, i really didnt have good support and didnt know about mumsnet then otherwise maybe I would have persevered. I really regret giving up, good luck to you, I hope it works for you.

[flourybaps]

erm that should read 'well done'

[laundrylover]

Star, to me you sound like you are doing a fantastic job of mothering your baby. You are following your instincts and your baby is gaining weight.

You must remember to look after yourself though - the chocloate eating advice on MN is for YOU not your milk production...Green and Blacks is the best.

My sister was very like you 3 months ago with her first baby and I ended up taking her to hospital for IV antibiotics for a really nasty infection. She is fine now but really slowed down....

Burn the book.....buy a sling.....use any old pillow....get your boobs out in a cafe (once you've done it once you won't care!)....put the hoover in the garage....get a cleaner if the mess bothers you (think of the money you are saving on formula).....chill....sleep...develop a daytime TV habit...buy a book on Nurturing for your DH... go to a breatfeeding support group etc. etc.

Your HV sounds much better than your MW who'll sign you off soon I hope.

You know in a year's time you'll have a bouncing baby and your whole life will have turned upside down and you'll wonder why you got stressed about all this.

[susie100]

How is it going star6?

[star6]

Better!! I went to a friend's house today (DH's first day back to work after paternity leave - scary!) and was feeling so good - I had to latch him on in a different room as this is still tricky - he takes ages! But was able to walk around with him and sit on sofa comfortably while bf! It was so nice!

I think he might have trapped wind, though...

Still a bit sore nipples (can't wrap in a towel or let shower touch them) but coping better and turning the corner. Thank you SO MUCH to everyone for encouraging me to keep at it!! This is all going to be well worth it in the end, I just know it. He's 2 weeks tomorrow
I need to start expressing and storing in the freezer for when I go back to work . Sometimes, like when breasts are engorged, i can express up to 40 ml... but other times, only 20 ml others NOTHING. How can you express more?