please help - SO hacked off with GP & H V and feeling really crap about BF (again)

[Caz10]

sorry i feel like i am always whinging on here...

to cut a long story as short as poss, dd was born quite small, 2nd bottom centile. she tracked it for about 5 weeks, then dropped weight a little bit and went down to the bottom centile (0.4th). Cue much pressure from HV to change to formula, finally agreed to top-ups which i did for a few days then stopped.

i know that hv is a muppet re bf-ing - gems of info/advice have included

• she's too small to have a very strong suck
  

• a lot of mums find their milk dries up at 5 weeks

she keeps commenting on my "bf-ing problems" although she's never once watched me feed or offered advice on it.

thankfully i got in touch with the BfN, and through them the BF advisor from our maternity unit. They have helped me enormously with my latch, and with assuring me that DD is ok.

dd is 10 weeks now and i had to take her to get weighed today (ok i know i don't have to go, but i am a 1st timer and scared in case she has lost weight again). she has gained a little weight, tracking the bottom centile, and jumped another one (3rd jump) in length.

HV STILL going on about top-ups, she clearly thinks I'm mad for only bf-ing. she is conferring with the gp (who last week again advised formula and has referred us to paeds) and calling me back, no doubt to tell me again to go on formula.

i am hacked off and so demoralised.

aarg.

[Highlander]

why don't you go to the BF advisor and have your DD weighed there? That way, you have something to show and tell for the HV (should she phone and hassle you) plus you get ongoing support with breastfeeding.

If your HV hassles you, you could tell her that you prefer to see the BF advisor since she is trained in breastfeeding and is supportive. Your HV is not trained and is undermining you at every step.

[doggiesayswoof]

Depends on your set-up locally - do you have a bf support group at your maternity unit? I did, and when I told my hv I was visiting it every week she backed off a bit. (my dd was born just below the 50th centile and "dropped" to the 0.4th so I was under a lot of pressure to top up too)

Like Highlander says, I used to get dd weighed at the bf group - so I could reassure myself without going near the hv.

I haven't seen your other threads but apart from the weight gain is your dd peeing and pooing/alert etc? The weight issue always seems to take over.

[morocco]

i know this is an ongoing issue for you, caz10, and your hv doesnt sound the worlds greatest (understatement ). if you can't get her weighed at the bf clinic can you at least try another hv drop in somewhere else or just not take your book with you, get her weighed then scarper.
why are they measuring her length? they won't do it here anymore as so unreliable apparently. do they measure all the babies or is it because of worries? mind you, if she's tracking her weight centile and also growing in length, that's really good isn't it?

[fleacircus]

I've been going to a local BF support group, and can get the baby weighed there as well. And practically have the NCT BF helpline on speed dial. Also the NCT volunteer I spoke to most recently was able to put me in touch with a local counsellor who came to our house and spent two hours with us - it was amazing and I can't recommend the NCT phoneline highly enough. We found the support group advertised on a flyer in the surgery waiting room, fat chance of idiot HV or smugly ill-informed GP recommending it - have a look next time you're there to see if there's a group local to you?

Sorry you're having a crap time - I know you've seen my threads so know I've been miserable too. Today I managed to get myself an appointment with a different GP and she actually listened to me and I got some proper treatment for the first time. So don't be afraid to seek out other advice; it's so isolating to be stuck with an HV and GP you can't trust. Don't let them steamroller you - you know that they are giving you unhelpful advice, you need to find support elsewhere.

[fishie]

yes that is crap re measuring length, ds never was and i had a really hassly hv too. is there any way you can access the scales outside baby clinic times? there was a baby massage class which used the same suite of rooms in my gp surgery, i used to weigh there.

[VictorianSqualor]

Can you change HV's?
Mine was a right numpty with DD so I changed and got one who was a bit more clued up.

[verylittlecarrot]

Caz, I'm so sorry you are still having a sucky time. Can you stop going to the HV? I actually told mine - out loud - I was disappointed in her, found her unsupportive and that I felt she didn't respect my wishes, and that I had made alternative arrangements to monitor dd's weight and did not wish to see her again.

And I know it's naughty of me but I bought a set of baby weighing scales myself, and now I weigh her at home.

You know the drill when dealing with bf ignorant formula pushing HCPs. Ignore, ignore, ignore. And if it gets too much, consider calmly telling them that you find their attitudes unhelpful and not in keeping with their NHS guidelines of supporting bf mums.

It gets hard having to repeatedly deploy all your reserves to stand up to them, and after another bashing you need to rest and regroup before feeling confident enough to dismiss their bad 'advice'. So have a cuppa and decide to postpone thinking more about this until tomorrow. You'll bounce back.

She is gaining, following a centile, doing everything she should. Do you feel she is healthy?

Keep your nerve, Caz. You are doing brilliantly.

[vonsudenfed]

Poor you, I had just the same problems, and it's really hard to feel you're doing the right thing.

My HV advised top-ups; I knew - thanks to MN - she was wrong. I rang the NCT helpline, got decent advice, and told my HV that's what I was going to do. No thanks to her, I am still bf at 15 months - every time I see her, she says 'well done'. Silly witch.

But it is really hard to stand up for yourself. As everyone else says, try and be strong and get as much support as you can - here, NCT, La Leche League.

And - FWIW - if she's stlll gaining in the same way she is now, I suspect the paeds will send you off with a cheery wave.

[LardyMardyDaisyBoo]

caz

Is there a Baby Cafe you can access? or a sure start centre near you as they often have in-house BF support.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things.

agree with the advice here; tell her that she isn't being helpful and ask if there is another HV who is better placed to deal with BFing mums.....or get her weighed elsewhere; we have a choice of clinics that we can use, and the local M&B group has weigh-in facilities. I get DD weighed, but never proffer my red book

[Caz10]

thanks so much everyone. i do feel i have plenty of bf support, i go to a weekly bfn group and have been seeing the advisor there, so no problems on that front at all, other than the fact that i get yet more advice, iyswim!
i told the hv today that the main prob i was having was the conflicting advice (loads and extremely varied! but at the mo it boils down to top ups or no top ups) and she said that at the end of the day the gp is the most senior person involved and therefore we have to gowith what she says.

we are going to pay to see the paed and now we can see him in the next 48hrs or so rather than 1 month on the nhs isn't that funny?!

so i was prepared to offer a top up after every feed till we saw him since it wouldn't be for long, but dd is now refusing the bottles and we've just had the most god-awful screaming session after trying to feed her one.

she is very alert, smiley and filling nappies regularly, no signs of dehydration.

morocco they measure all the babies, weekly!!

doggiessaywoof how did your dd's weight eventually pan out?

vlc thanks!! how is your dd? you are spot on, it is having the will and energy to constantly fight your corner that is so hard.

we have to see the same hvs for jags and development checks so i really don't want it to be a fight, but its looking hard to avoid that.

[Caz10]

oh, also been seeing the BF person at the mat unit, but apparently according to the HV the GP knows better than her about bf-ing!
we had been seeing her weekly but she'd said she didn't need to see us again as she was so pleased with dd's progress!

[verylittlecarrot]

IIRC it was after the final 12 week jabs that I 'sacked' my HV
Development checks? Beg pardon? What are they and how often do you do them?

dd is great, gaining huge amounts of weight with solids. I am coaching her to tell the paed herself that she is thriving when we go back for the follow up appt. She has gained 24 ounces in 19 days...

[verylittlecarrot]

the 12 week jabs, not the 'final' 12 week jabs. doh

[PortAndLemon]

Ask how much training the GP has had specifically on breastfeeding. If it's more than the breastfeeding specialists then I will be extremely surprised...

[SparklyDYSONGothKat]

Caz, The lady I saw today said that babies settle on the line they will follow at 6 weeks, some babies go up, some go down, and anything before shouldn't be looked at.

[BabiesEverywhere]

"she said that at the end of the day the gp is the most senior person involved"

Correction the most senior person involved is you, as the mother !!!

As PP suggested, I would change HV this one is an idiot, especially if she is measuring your babies length.

[Caz10]

wow vlc that's fab! maybe i can slip dd a banana or something!

we get development checks at 8mths and then i think 18mmths or 2yrs something like that.

i know the one at 8mths has something to do with being able to bang bricks together!!

[Caz10]

oh sparkly i want to come and see your lady! interestingly enough it was almost bang on 6 wks when she did drop to the 0.4th.

portandlemon i am just sooo not brave enough...

babieseverywhere that is exactly what dh said!! why is measuring their length wrong? not being cheeky, just curious! that's the 4th time hers has been done, but at the other clinic it's weekly!

[verylittlecarrot]

banana is a huge hit chez carrot

but has an unfortunate plugging up effect
which can be relieved with prunes

Ahh, an 8 month check. must start training babycarrot to bang bricks on HV's kneecaps...

[BabiesEverywhere]

I understand that it is near impossible to get an accurate measurement of a babies length, especially when they are small and curled up and that babies varied a lot in length anyway. So if the length can not be accurately measured and there is no set targets for length, there is no point doing it.

Plus if trained experts have trouble measuring a baby's length, what chance of a HV doing it accurately.

As it has not been good clinical practice to measure a babies length for years, it shows your HV is badly trained if she still does it.

[BabiesEverywhere]

I should add I am just saying what I remember reading somewhere, if I am wrong please correct me. I have goggled but can't find any real facts either way.

[duchesse]

You may get a more informed opinion from the paediatrician, if you get a paed who can tell the different between a small baby and starving one. Not very medical personal ever actually see a starving baby, and many think small=starving, which is patent nonsense.

When my daughters were nweborn and tiddly (second one solely breast fed for 8.5 months) and both creeping along the 2nd/ 0.4th centile, the HUGE difference for me was how the two different HV dealt with it.

First one scared the shits out of me, second one who had nursed in the Gambia merely looked at her and could see that she was fine (and she was the tiddler...)

SOMEONE has to be on the 0.4th centile. What they OUGHT to be worrying about is general health, milestones, and whether the baby is deviating markedly from that centile for an extended period. FWIW, I found that my babies' weight did not reach "their" centile until around 4 months- mine were born bang on the 50th, but spent 4 months free-falling through the charts.

Both are still Small for their Ages (where "normal" for my oldest daughter's age (12) seems to include girls of 5ft6 weighing 11 stone (yup)), but are very healthy, athletic and CLEVER.

Hang in there. Avoid all medical personnel if you can as long as you are not worried about anything else (mums are more often than not right about such things). There are lots of other tiddly babies on MN, with mother willing to offer support. Good luck!

[bobbysmum07]

"Avoid all medical personnel if you can as long as you are not worried about anything else (mums are more often than not right about such things)."

I would really really caution against taking advise like this. It would be dangerous and irresponsible to do so.

This is an internet message board. These people have their own agenda and they have not seen your baby. By all means, listen and take some stuff on board. But for God's sake, do not ignore your doctor. He/she is the one who is seeing your baby.

[bb99]

haven't read all of this, but if you are happy to breast feed then fantastic - i don't know of many bf babies who have not thrived, or who have starved, or heard about the strong suck thing, except possibly with premies.

Also the baby needs to suck (you) to get milk supply running iyswim. Is the doctor concerned, or only the hv - could you weigh in with the doc?

Mixed feeding can upset your supply - not advocating avoiding medical personnel or totally ignoring advice, just get another opinion.