India Knight "Stop breast-beating, sisters" - comment on charities' complaints re OK! article

[SueW]

In today's Times

Why can't they understand it's about underhand advertising?

[hunkermunker]

"The point is that all this is fine. Breast-feeding is marvellous if you can and want to do it. Hats off to them: 10 Brownie points and another 10 for the health benefits. Bottle-feeding is fine, too, especially if you believe that a happy, relaxed mother makes for a happy, relaxed child."

Yep. Agree totally.

But what this, and every other anti-bf article like it fails to mention is that for every woman who is cheerfully bottlefeeding in the first six weeks, NINE others are wishing they'd still been breastfeeding, but stopped because they'd, in the main, not had good enough support. They're not bottlefeeding in a relaxed, happy fashion. Oh, no. They're in pieces over not breastfeeding.

And articles like this, they're guilty of "telling women what to do and feel" - why shouldn't somebody who hasn't managed to breastfeed feel sad about it if that's the way it's made her feel, fgs?!

So her last line "Hooray for freedom of choice" - what effing choice are women given if the support to do the one thing they really want to do in the first weeks of their babies' lives isn't there?

[lljkk]

But NCT/Save the Children's complaints aren't about Jordan's choices, they're about the advertising!! Is India Knight so thick she can't figure that part out??

I don't give a fig what Jordan physically does with her tits, I do care about them being used to sell formula.

[moondog]

I've always thought India Knight spectaculalry dull. Now I have final proof.

[hunkermunker]

lljkk, I've not seen one article written by anyone that actually understands the issues, only previously-supressed bile spewing forth.

[hunkermunker]

I love the paradoxical nature of these articles though and if it wasn't about something so serious, I'd laugh.

"Women must be allowed choice!!!"

"Advertising must be allowed!!!"

Well, the latter cancels out the former, so well done, genius.

[missgriss]

I agree with hunker.

I had much more support with bfing DD, plus the experience of what I went through trying to bf DS. I didn't even know babies were supposed to feed constantly for the first few days when I had DS!

[hunkermunker]

And this bit:

"Usually, when you have choice, you are allowed access to both sides of the picture. In the case of breast v bottle, only the former side is vocal ? not just vocal, but horribly condemnatory with it: the unspoken assumption is that you only care about your child?s wellbeing if you get ?em out."

In the case of breast v bottle (which, imo shouldn't be a "versus" situation anyway - I've certainly never seen it as one) - you don't have choice. Not informed choice.

And I might be vocal about bfing, but I'm definitely not condemnatory of those who don't want to do it - anybody who is does breastfeeding a tremendous disservice imo.

I would like half an hour in a room with IK though.

[Difers]

Agree with Hunker, This debate is getting weirder and weirder. I am sick of media types like India Knight. They don't live in the real world.

Breast feeding isn't a middle class issue, mums at the local bf group live in council houses aswell as owned houses.

Breastfeeding or bottle feeding isn't about free choice either, lack of support from peer, family and health workers, the need to return to work, lack of knowledge about feeding and advertising all have an affect on whether we feed formula or breast.

India doesn't address the fact that a child breastfed is less likely to die from SIDS than a bottle fed one.

[hunkermunker]

And "The idea of breast-feeding makes me feel (a) bovine and (b) queasy. The idea of breast pumps makes me keel over. There you go. It?s just my subjective opinion, worth no more or no less than yours ? but it?s an opinion that?s so frowned on in all quarters, from the National Health Service to the ghastly NCT to well-meaning middle-class mums, that most women keep quiet about holding it, as though it were shameful to bottle-feed your child. It isn?t."

Fair enough, that's how you feel. But don't delude yourself that most women keep quiet about it.

Oh, no.

Most women have articles published in the Times about it, actually, it would see. Or glossy spreads in OK! fgs.

And to turn it into a class issue:

" breast-feeding is a middle-class thing and there is something revolting about middle-class types banging on about breast being best to their ignorant, deluded working-class sisters. They know how to have children, too, amazingly. Leave them alone"

Oh, yes, it's all about class. There's nobody middle class on here or in RL who's wanted to breastfeed and not managed it and nobody working class who's breastfed at all anywhere [heavy sarcasm]

The irony of this is you have someone middle class (IK) telling other women how they should feel, think and act and pretending she's the first person to ever write anything negative about breastfeeding or positive about ffeeding.

FFS, it's stuff like this that fuels the divide - why can she not see this?!!

[MrsJohnCusack]

well yes, I do think she has rather missed the point about what the problem is - the underhand promotion of formula NOT Jordan's choices, as lljkk points out.

god I do find it completely ironic that this is all about bleeding Jordan. Although it does rather neatly showcase the breasts as sexual/playthings for men side of things, which I'm sure is behind a lot of people's discomfort/active hostility towards with so called 'public' breastfeeding (I just call it breastfeeding meself)

oh I dunno. I just think it's a deliberately inflammatory & ridiculous article. And that JOrdan and her funbags should just bog off

[pagwatch]

India Knight - ah but she is witty and aecerbic. She was incredibly witty when she used to use retard for comedic effect. And then she had a child with specialneeds and suddenly she realised it is actually just vile. So there is hope. Lets all just wait.

[gess]

expat you're sweet- but I think you're referring to GDG's original post. I cut and pasted as I rather liked it Cannot claim it for my own.....

[Tinker]

I've always hated India Knight and Jordan

[Cammelia]

I wonder if Jordan is unable (rather than unwilling) to breastfeed due to her breast surgery?

[pagwatch]

excellent. There is no need to be judgemental and superior in our hatred. If its good enough for IK it is good enough for jordan. Now if you hated Jordan and only loathed India..

[Pannacotta]

Agree with fishie, nasty pattern with the Times articles being rather anti-breastfeeding (have read other similar articles in the TImes before this debate kicked off too). Also agree she has missed the point about the obvous promotion of infant formula.
Don't much like her attitude or her comments.
There is antipathy/prejudice against breastfeeders as well, its not all one way agianst formula feeding.
I was often asked by friends when I was going to give up feeding DS1 (fed until he was 2) and I dont feel very comfortable breastfeeding out and about where I live, so it goes both ways IMO.
Why do women feel the need to attack/stereotype other women? Doesnt help anyone...

[Tinker]

You can avoid India Knight's crap but just not reading a rag like the Times though

[Pannacotta]

You would hope that a broadsheet might produce a better balance of journalism than this (and the previous breastfeeding article posted on here).

[hunkermunker]

The recent bf article in the Sun was better than anything I've seen in the Times. Oh, the irony.

I've just emailed IK. I was measured and reasonable.

[amidaiwish]

oh hunker please write a letter listing all your points and send it to every newspaper. you've summed up the issues perfectly.

[hunkermunker]

Amidaiwish, I think I will do something similar... Watch this space.

[Doodledootoo]

Message withdrawn

[donnie]

realistically though can anyone imagine Jordan breastfeeding? the baby would have to be safety harnessed to some kind of scaffolding extending from her torso in order to reach the nipple. It would be a great photo shoot for OK! mag don't you think? I may ring up and suggest it to them.

[Katy44]

If she managed to completely miss the point of the Jordan issue why on earth would she do more than skim read hunker's email?

[hunkermunker]

I can live in hope, Katy, can't I?