India Knight "Stop breast-beating, sisters" - comment on charities' complaints re OK! article

[SueW]

In today's Times

Why can't they understand it's about underhand advertising?

[Cammelia]

A fitting end to the thread methinks

[bonitaMia]

newy, stella is all right but try to introduce real ales before he's 1.
crack is only second-best to heroin, you are failing him there, you know that.

sorry, couldn't resist

and my lentils are not bland, so there.

[newy]

Nessie is in the landfill I'm afraid. Couldn't fit Shergar in so liquidised him and gave him to DS for his tea. Don't worry he won't choke, I gave him a can of stella to wash it down with...

Probably got some crack I could bring though.

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

Oh gosh yes, I was pressured quite often to switch both of mine to formula. Particularly with DS because of the thrush I was suffering.

It's deemed socially acceptable to say "why dont you give him a bottle of formula" than it is "why dont you breastfeed him?"

But, that's a whole other debate that Caroline seems to want to enter into

Caroline, have you ever considered becoming a politician? You'd be great .

Tiktok, you are fab as always.

Harspi - agree with everything you have posted too.

MP - am pmsl at your "I Like Willies" post

[Quattrocento]

Bring some Nessie steaks for the stew. Lentils alone are a bit too bland.

[newy]

Oh dear. As well as feeding my baby shit, now appears am responsible for climate change, landfill sites, high council tax bills etc. Think that's a trifle harsh tbh.

ps also killed loch ness monster.

[nangnangnang]

Q - took some doing myself then remembered I used vaguely to know some Times journos - all fell into place then. Believe me she deserves sympathy (well, up to a point).

[tiktok]

Caroline, if you see evidence of bullying, suppressing, serial or otherwise on mumsnet, then of course you should report it.

IIRC correctly, I called the experience you witnessed 'poor postntal care'. It really is nothing to do with unethical commercial promotion of formula milk. I can't see how you connect it.

Have a dance round QC's campfire and stop being cross

[Quattrocento]

IK? I am supposed to welcome IK to the sisterhood?



IK? Well I'll tell you something, nang, there are a greater proportion of women in her workplace than mine. And mine is a more conservative environment. No excuse for dissing breastfeeding mums who've leaked during meetings, none at all.



Oh okay then. But she's to bring her own barefoot children and leave her opinions at home.

[harpsichordcarrier]

actually this is my fave Loudon Wainwright song:
Crossin' the highway late last night
He shoulda looked left and he shoulda looked right
He didn't see the station wagon car
The skunk got squashed and there you are!

You got yer
Dead skunk in the middle of the road
Dead skunk in the middle of the road
You got yer dead skunk in the middle of the road
Stinkin' to high Heaven!

Take a whiff on me, that ain't no rose!
Roll up yer window and hold yer nose
You don't have to look and you don't have to see
'Cause you can feel it in your olfactory

You got yer
Dead skunk in the middle of the road
Dead skunk in the middle of the road
You got yer dead skunk in the middle of the road
Stinkin' to high Heaven!

Yeah you got yer dead cat and you got yer dead dog
On a moonlight night you got yer dead toad frog
Got yer dead rabbit and yer dead raccoon
The blood and the guts they're gonna make you swoon!
You got yer
Dead skunk in the middle of the road
Dead skunk in the middle of the road
You got yer dead skunk in the middle of the road
Stinkin' to high Heaven!

C'mon stink!

You got it!
It's dead, it's in the middle
Dead skunk in the middle!
Dead skunk in the middle of the road
Stinkin' to high heaven!
All over the road, technicolor man!
Oh, you got pollution
It's dead, it's in the middle
And it's stinkin' to high, high Heaven

[nangnangnang]

In the spirit of camp-fire sisterhood should we not also extend some generosity to IK? She and her fellow hackettes on such masculine rags have to try far harder to fit in than their male counterparts and the easiest way to do it is to attack (apologies for upcoming poor phrasing) the elements of womanhood her colleagues and readers find difficult, alien or threatening (high heels and lipstick fine, breastfeeding and fellow-feeling bad). It's sad and it's nasty but it reflects insecurity more than anything.

So come sup on dandelion tea, India, and confide in us that you didn't really mean it.

[constancereader]

bullies? where???

[3andnomore]

Caroline...who do you mean...who bullies...where?
[must be blinded emoticon]

[Quattrocento]

Oh God Caroline stop with the fighting.

FWW I have never posted on a thread like this before. I have never bullied anyone in my life.

We are all dropping this nonsensical argument and sitting around a campfire. You come too. Stop it now. We are not fighting any more.

I have some Elderflower wine made especially for you. Dinner is cooking.

Don't suppose there's the slightest chance you can play the guitar, is there?

[Caroline1852]

I have just spent a few minutes reading some other breast bottle feeding threads. OMG.....I feel lured into a trap and see that some of you are serial bullies. This is the first time I have posted on a feeding thread, but I see some of you spend quite a lot of time on this topic. Suppressing and bullying people as you go. I posted after reading the IK article which I reacted to because of what I saw just 4 weeks ago on a postnatal ward.... a woman crying for some formula and being refused. It really upset me. You can keep your breast/bottle feeding thread, it's all yours!

[Quattrocento]

Why that makes you an expert. You must come and tell us how to cook them. Difers has got the fire going. We've got some poems. You can do the cooking. Now we just need a guitar, a tambourine, and some barefoot children.

[Manictigger]

Very true 3andnomore. When I was suffering from thrush or was knackered from feeding, even dh said maybe we should try a bottle. In his defence he said he suggested it because he was concerned about me but to me it just sounded like he was saying 'you're being stubborn and a martyr - formula is just as good as breastmilk, what's your problem?' It really didn't help. It's only now, months down the line after he's seen the faff that visiting friends have with bottles that he's said that he's glad I stuck at bfing.


And who says my norks sag??? I'm hoping the bio oil might have saved them

[bonitaMia]

No thanks - I am actually cooking lentils for tonight's meal ha ha and they stick to the pan unless you watch them like a hawk!

[Quattrocento]

Oh don't be offended. Was not meaning to offend. Was bloody angry at having been forced back to work too early, and guilty for not feeding the DCs for longer. Of course I would not have deliberately feed my infants shit. Of course not.

Come around the campfire now. We are all forgetting what some tossy times journo wrote and we are looking forward to lentil stew. Come and join us.

[bonitaMia]

I am sure you didn't mean it Quattrocento, but people who, either by choice or necessity, FF their babies, are entitled to feel offended by your "formula shit" comment.

I am sure you would rather give up work and live on benefits than feeding your baby something that you genuinely think will harm him. Wouldn't you? The fact that you didn't makes me think that you don't think formula is bad at all: just a second best alternative (when considered only from the milk composition point of view) that is actually the best alternative in certain circumstances and when other factors are taken into consideration (work, family, mother's health, etc).

[3andnomore]

comments made to me by others HPs friends and family when breastfeeding one or another child:

• ds2 was 3 month, if that...and very good friend saying...."I must admit, he looks a bit big to bf now...looks weird" (we are still friends and I know her comments came from ignorance and possibly own guilty feelings as she had not the greates and longest bf experience...rather then wanting to be hurtful)
  
  -all Kids were sicking up...with each one general people and sometimes hp's would suggest...maybe it's your milk, maybe formula would be better (and I sadly fell for that one with ds1)....
  
  
• ds 2 (who was born end of 2002) was being exclsuively bf'ed until 6 month...HV's were ratehr discouraging telling me I was starving him, and I would inhibit his speechdevellopement etc...if not weaning him at 4 month (tehre was no phsyical reason for them to suggest that I was undernourishing my child)....luckily stand in HV informed them that indeed I was right and they were wrong and that even at that tiem the official advice has been, for many years, that indeed exclusive bf'ing should be till 6month...
  
  
• ds 2 ...saw GP for a smear when ds was about 12 weeks...GP asking me...oh does he sleep through yet...my reply no...well, how do you feed him...I breastfeed....well, switch to Formula, that will make him sleep through, also your dh can feed him for you in the night (like that was gonna happen, lol)...
  
  -I have also has people say how disgusting and yukkie they think breastfeeding is and I had plenty of shocked faces when saying that I was "still" bf'ing, and the longest I ever got to was 13 month...so, not even a walking and talking Toddler by anyones standards....
  
  
• reoccurend thrush of nipple and at one time even breast, aswell as the Baby's mouth (ds2) , had some real painissues there, had plenty of instances where I had to feed through gritted teeth... so many people telling me, wouldn't it be just easier to just bottlefeed....my thoughts to that...erm...no hated Bottlefeeding when I switched with es at around 4 month...so much hassle, he did not outgrow his reflux until he was walking and talking, which meant smelly puke all over the place...nice...all teh hassle of sterilising, warming bottles, etc...no really don't think I personally would have found it the easier option...
  
  I could go on....
  but think I made my point, as have ptehrs...that indeed Caroline, you are very wrong that bottlefeeders don't try to push it...there is so much pressure on women whenever there is even minor problems or just imagined problems (i.e apparnelty weightgain not good enough, etc...)....to "just" switch...because sadly a lot of HP's are rather ignorant about the issue and possibly most of those also just wouldn't have a clue about true bf support...i.e. to really establish the issue and then helping to correct it...for any HP it is so much easier to just say, switch to the Bottle...but of course this really isn't the answer to so many women who feel let down or like failures because they did not "succeed" with something that was so important to them...they are the ones that suffer...
  anyway...went off on a rant there...ooops....

[Difers]

I have saved some fallen Ash tree from the recent storms...there is nothing like the smell of lentil stew bubbling away on a fragrant ash fire.

[prettybird]

I wish I could have been more evangelical, but was alwys scared that people (like Caroline) were thinking I was judging them. Most bf-ers I knew tended to keep quiet when amongest formual feeders for the same reason.

I did however try to make a point of "breast feeding by example": not being scared to do it in public, if asked, saying I fed ds for a year, letting people know that I was expressing at work. I didn't do it in an eggressive sort of way - I jsut tried to make it seem like a normal thing to do - which it is!

[Quattrocento]

Mine's a maternity kaftan. Bit worn in places. I have a second to lend to Manic. It'll cover up the shaven armpits but expose the saggy boobs.

[Quattrocento]

Difers please make sure the fire is made out wood taken from sustainable sources.

I have brought some lentils to contribute to the feast, here.