Nipple confusion - no way back?

[mines]

I'm new to mumsnet (and mothering!) and I want to pick the brains of all you breastfeeders/experienced mummies out there.

So here's my sad little tale: my son is now coming up for five weeks old. Breastfed from birth, but major problems with establishing feeding in first week (lost 25% of body weight, poor little mite) meant he now feeds through nipple shields and I am a nervous wreck where his weight is concerned.

The nipple shields allowed him to get a grip of the breast and stopped the hideous fighting every time there was meant to be a feed (he just would not latch properly and would get extremely cross and distressed). He regained his birth weight and went on to put on another 11 oz in week 2 - 3.

But then week 3-4 he stopped putting on weight again. Cue concerned questions from health visitor, who identified the nipple shields as a possible problem. I thought it was probably time for me to be brave and try and get rid of them too, so they went - for 24 hours.

The regime the health visitor suggested was to feed him (without shields) for 30 minutes and then ensure we topped him up with a bottle feed and this is where the problem started. Within 24 hours, ds had worked out that bottles were easy and fun and the bare breast was not. We went back to hideous flashback fighting about feeds and I'm afraid my nerve cracked.

So here we are, back with the nipple shields and now topping up with a bottle (this has worked to get more weight on him - 7 oz in two days).

But I would really like to get rid of both the bottle and the shields! Is it possible to undo this level of confusion? Has anyone had this problem out there? Do nipple shields really cause that much of a problem?

Any advice or comments appreciated!

Have just had the midwife come to "discharge" us and dd's weight now above birthweight at 11 days old which I believe is good so obviously getting enough milk! I have ordered a hospital breast pump - due to arrive tomorrow. But I must admit last night I cracked and gave her some of the formula we received in our freebies bag after expressing every hour, getting 2oz and basically not keeping up with demand! Hopefully the new pump will make things easier but any advice as to which formula is best for mixed feeding?

LKM, not sure which are 'best' for mixed feeding (my dd was exclusively breastfed for about 9 mths) but I was keen once she was on formula to use one which contained long chain fatty acids (research says that babies who had formula with these in - which are used to produce brain cells - scored higher in cognitive tests than those who had formula without them)...like Aptamil (can't remember the names of the other ones) - although it's more expensive than some of the more famous brands and it's not available in every chemist..

LKM - sorry, forgot to add: well done on the new baby and the feeding, you're obviously doing a fab job!

Well done, LKM!

Just a word about LCFA's; I've heard that they are made from fish eye sockets, so may not be suitable if you are vegetarian.

SueDonim, mmmmmmm hadn't thought about that! this motherhood lark is never straightforward!

LKM - great news on baby's weight...good sign baby's thriving despite the probs! Can I ask what freebie bag had formula in it? This is illegal in the UK - are you posting from outside the UK? If you can get the positioning sorted, you won't need to express...would make life easier!! Formula milk in the UK is much of a muchness though the LCPUFAs in some brands might make you think these are better than others. They are made from articifically-harvested marine algae, or fish eyes...they are not human LCPUFAs.

BTW, expressing every hour and getting 2 oz is not bad No baby needs more than 2 oz of milk every hour. If you express 24 times a day (presume you're not!) and get 2 oz of milk each time, you are getting a total of 48 oz a day....enough for a sumo-sized baby!!

I had a homebirth and the midwife bought a bag of stuff back from the hospital (Chelsea and Westminster) so I'm not sure it was strictly free giveaways or she thought it might be useful. She was very clear that they were not promoting formula or the brand in question - and in fact would not leave the house until dd had had some colustrum (in the end by baby-cup due to below issues).
I have now taken delivery of an Ameda "hospital" expressing machine and am feeling much calmer as milk production much easier, faster (I can even feed dd with one hand and pump with the other so cutting down on night time feed sessions). In fact I now think I am producing too much (breasts becoming engorged again) so the formula may not be an issue!
Many thanks for all the support and advice.

Good news, LKM! Hope things continue to be easier. Samples of formula should not be given to anyone (unless they and their babies are in hospital are patients in the hospital) and the midwife may have meant well, but she was breaking the law.

Babynat organic formula uses cold-pressed vegetable oils for essential fatty acids - not fish eyes. I agree that formula can never be as good for a baby as b/f but find it very useful now my son is older for mixing with cereal, putting in his food and for the odd emergency bottle with the childminder (he nearly always has expressed milk though). Babynat also comes in v stylish tins! UK distribution info is on 0208340 0401.

LKM,
Well done ! it sounds as you and baby are doing well. If you feel 'full' you could always express a little to relieve it and freeze a batch per day which you might find useful later either for the odd feed or for mixing with rice/food when you start weaning (ice cube trays are good for this). Gradually that over-full feeling will pass and you'll be able to produce it as and when you/baby need it. Good luck.

Yes I might start doing that. I have found one breast produces about 2x as much as the other. Any idea why this might be and how to even them up?

On a completely other topic - any advice on getting poo stains off carpet (synthetic, pale brown - rented flat!!!) DD projectile pooed at 5am this morning mid-change!

Vanish Mousse works well.

On the two breasts producing differing amounts, that is not unusual. I breast fed 4 babies and my right side always expressed far more than my left every time, but that doesn't mean they are producing different amounts. One lets down better than the other. I think it is a bit like having 2 different sized feet!

Don't laugh at my ignorance Mears, but does an asymetrical letdown result in different sized boobs once breastfeeding is finished?

I have the same thing Mears... but Jasper my boobs are fairly symetrical - at least DH has never said anything

P.S. According to the Crazy Horse owner (this is Paris most famous and well respected topless bar with lots of feathers... very glitzy,...) no woman has symetrical or identical boobs... there is always 1 which is better than the other. I thought I should share the opinion of an expert !!!!

As with my feet I have two slightly different sized boobs but that was the case prior to breastfeeding. I must admit I am quite proud of my well used assets! They still seem to have a bit of life in them yet.