FFers please tell me your tips and advice!

[MorrisZapp]

My DS is ten weeks old and was breast fed up til now. We're weaning him over to a bottle of formula as I want to stop BF.

I suppose I just want to ask what all your handy hints are, especially for minimising kitchen faff for night feeds? Also, how does one FF when out and about?

How exacting are you with sterilising?

Lastly, does anybody know roughly how often and how much (in MLs) I might expect a pretty hefty ten weeker to be drinking?

I FF bboth mine.

I know it is frowned on but especially with DS we made up 3 feeds at a time, boiled water added powder and then cooled, fed on demand, DS was every 2 hours. Whatever you do the water needs to be hot before you add the powder as it is that which sterilses the bacteria in the powder.

I used ready made formula for night feeds, I decided the benefits out weighed the cost.

Sterlised until 1yo too, I used to keep the bottles in the fridge. They took up a lot of room.

I did exactly the same with all five of mine - just make sure you cool the boiling water for around 30 mins before adding the powder, shake and put the bottles on shelves in the fridge, not in the fidge door as its not cold enough there.

I take bottles straight out of the fridge and put them in the changing bag when I'm out and by feeding time they're usually room temp, no need to warm them for a feed unless they're still quite cold...most cafes will give you a jug of hot water to warm bottles.

In the night, I used to take up three bottles when they were tiny and fed them at room temp. At 10 weeks I was giving my children around 5/6 fl oz at each feed HTH.

Ready made stuff was great for out and about.

Dishwasher was great for sterilising.

I'm at 5 months and not sterilising "every time". He's moving across the carpet unaided & kissing the dogs...

Hi,
I've had to go to mix feeding DD due to poor weight gain. Was really worried about how to get out and about as breast feeding just seemed so much easier.

This is the question I posted the other week. Prompted alot of different solutions!!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1096238-Can-someone-please-talk-to-me-about-making-up-formula

Personally I have bought a tommee tippee flask for £10 and the formula powder triple holders. The flask holds a descent amount of hot boiled water. I make up the bottle from there and then fill the outer cover with cold water to then cool it down. Did this in Pizza Express yesterday and it worked a treat, and if I'm honest probably easy than trying to keep myself descent in a busy restaurant whose chairs don't have arms!!

I'm still mix feeding at night so boil the kettle before I start but when she' s on just formula will use the flask then as well

re how much to drink -
We were advised by the BF clinic and HV that to work out how much formula to give in a day, multiply their weight in lbs by 2.5 to get the total ounces needed in a day. So, a 10lb baby needs 25 ounces a day. Divide that by the number of feeds you give and you've got your amount per feed. It's best to add an extra ounce or two per feed in case they are hungrier at a particular feed, and they shouldn't completly drain the bottle - that way you know they've had what they want, rather than they finished but wanted more. This is just a rough guide, though, you may find your baby drinks a little more or less, but it's a good place to start.

My baby is just under 10lb so needs about 25 ounces a day. She gets 6 bottles a day at the moment, so we make up 5 ouncers. She drinks between 3 and 5 ounces at a feed, so always makes up her quota, as it were.

the number of feeds will depend on their age and your baby. We were feeding every 3 hours like clockwork when she was little (so 8 feeds a day), but now she's about 4 months and sleeps longer at night hence down to 6. She is still 3 hourly during the day, though - she's so predictable...!

Yeah - nights can be a faff, Have the kettle already filled with fresh water, the bottle out and ready, bowl for cooling, etc. sounds obvious but we were faffing about each night until we got organised
We sterilise everything, but it's not that bad really. You can assemble the bottles once they're sterilised and as long as the cap is on, they will stay ok. i sterilise twice a day. I use freshly boiled water but i don't wait 30 minutes. the main issue seems to be with clumping of the powder and the one we use doesn't clump. there's a document by who on ff that says research shows that boiling water does not interfere with the nutritional value of vitamin content - someone posted it on another thread, will try and find it and post here.
as for volume, i was told the total daily volume in ml is 150 x their kilo body weight. it's a good starting point and then you will get to know your own child and how much they need overall and if they like to have more or less at particular times of the day. dd is 10 weeks and probably about 5.3 kilos. i give her 180ml in each feed (5 a day) and she'll take between 140 and 180. we recently upped this from 150 cos she's started to go through the night. so she's taking more than the recommended amount, and always has done, but her weight is fine for her age and she doesn't look podgy! good luck!!!

www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/micro/pif_guidelines.pdf
see appendix 3 on boiling water vs water at 70 degrees

You are supposed to sterlise everything until 12 months. This is because formula is a perfect breeding ground for bacteria so you need to make sure all traces of this bacteria are removed.

It doesn't matter that baby is sticking other things in their mouth before 12 months because the bacteria on the things they are sticking in their mouth is unlikely to be as potentially harmful as the bacteria that can be present in formula.

That being said if you use the hottest wash on your dishwasher then that should kill all the bugs and remove the need to sterilise.

I guess there are different rules for different countries. :) Here we are encouraged not to sterilise after each and every bottle because it was found that children were building up no tolerance to "anything" and there was an epidemic of "allergic to everything" children.

The sterilisation/formula thing doesn't really make sense when you think about it in a microbiology sense - although obviously it's been some years (more than 10) since I studied it so perhaps things have changed.

To be honest AlpinePony I kind of agree with you. Thinking logically I think that sterilising is silly and as long as you are washing things thoroughly with hot soapy water then you are fine.

However emotionally it's hard to go against official advice because I would be devasted if DD did get ill and was because I couldn't be bothered to sterilise her bottles :(

I, of course, go against all official advice, and make up 4 bottles at a time with cooled boiled water and then keep in the fridge.

Stopped sterilising months ago. DS2 is nearly 10 months.

He has been fine, but what ever you do don't take my advise. As we know here on the BF/FF forum, anecdotal evidence that your child has been fine counts for naught.

Just couldn't see why what I did for DS1, who is a healthy 5 year old, should be so different for DS2.

The only argument here that I have BTW is that formula doesn't dissolve in hot water and plus I don't have time to make up the bottles one by one as advised.

Sigh, have left myself wide open to all manner of allegations .

advice sorry

Funny - if you are making those 4 bottles with water which is 70 degrees and then cooling and storing in the fridge then you are following the guidelines!

Is that what you meant by cooled boiled water?

You're following the guidelines for preparing in advance.

cardamomginger - can you find that link about boiling water? Only the WHO guidelines which say 1 litre of water boiled and left for 30 mins mean it is 70 degrees and all the data they published from their experiments showed that 70 degree water killed bacteria and that this was a compromise temperature.

Links I have seen suggested that their may be problems with using hotter water than that and that that may destroy nutrients.

so when you say "there's a document by who on ff that says research shows that boiling water does not interfere with the nutritional value of vitamin content - someone posted it on another thread, will try and find it and post here." and that appears to be going against the core WHO guidance I think it is extrememly important that this is clarified for all the FF mums reading/lurking here

I have ff 2 dds and am currently awaiting arrival of dc3 - get a second kettle, much handier if you're waiting on water cooling down. I sterilised until about 10 months or so, was more lax after about 8 months. Didn't use any follow on milks, just switched to cows at 12 months. Made up 3 bottles at a time. DD2 was real cluster feeder!!!

no, when I say cooled boiled water, I mean cool boiled water. Know full well that it is against official guidelines, but having done my research have concluded that it is worth the risk. Formula doesn't dissolve in hot water. Plus claggy formula gives DS2 an upset stomach!

OP I promise I'm not trying to get you to change your mind :) but if you don't mind me asking, why are you moving to FF? I ask solely because I'm interested in why different choices are made.

Thanks :)

I'm not sure I can offer much in the way of advice but I do know that a FF friend always used to keep a couple of cartons in the boot of her car in case she got stuck out somewhere. Made sense to me.

formula doesn't dissolve in hot water?

eh?

I did post the link immediately after my first post and referred people to the relevant sectiion, appendix 3.

To quote from appendix 3:
"Data presented at the meeting on the reduction in vitamin levels on reconstitution with boiling water showed that vitamin C is the only vitamin that is
significantly affected (reduction ranging from 5.6 to 65.6% in the four powders tested). However, to offset the loss of vitamins during the shelf-life of the product, all dry formulas actually contained higher levels of vitamin C than was labelled. After reconstituting with boiling water, three of the four formulas still contained higher levels than labelled. The fourth, after a vitamin C reduction of 65.6%, contained 9.0 mg/100 calories. This level is still greater than the minimum level of vitamin C (8 mg/100 calories) required by the Codex Standard for Infant
Formula (CAC, 1981). This study appears to indicate that reduction in vitamin levels from use of water at >70 °C is not significant. However, as the results of only one study were discussed, the meeting did not agree to make any specific
recommendations on this issue..."

If you have links to other research saying that nutrients are destroyed, I'd be interested to see them. Thanks!

I use a flask too. I have to say I struggle a bit with the boil the kettle and wait for 30 mins bit! I have a stainless steel kettle and my mum had a plastic kettle. When I boil them and leave for 30 mins, they both end up at such different temperatures. The stainless steel one obviously works a bit like a flask.

As for sterilising I Sterilised until 1yr with ds1 and will do the same with ds2. Only formula related things. I just sterilise the bottles morning & night. Its no more hassle than washing them or putting them in a dishwasher!

I would like to urge people not to use water much hotter than 70 degrees unless they have access to detailed research on this topic (I don't believe that there has been any).

There is a reason that the guidelines have been set at 70 degrees.

The link you provided, cardamomginger does not give any level of comfort that making formula with very hot water is safe.

Reading the whole Appendix they are talking specifically about Vitamin C not being significantly effected and they mention that that was just one study.

I will see if I can find any links to any studies. I know that the Irish guidance note says:

The higher the temperature of the water used to make PIF, the greater the degradation of essential nutrients. However, the water should be at a sufficiently high temperature to kill harmful bacteria. Water should never be used below 70°C.

I think that part of the formula industry's reluctance re the 70 degrees guidelines is to do with possible loss of nutrients.

Morris I've seen your posts before - you're an intelligent woman. Do whatever you want for your baby - it will all be fine and trust your instincts.

But for the love of G-d (and your sanity) stay out of this forum as it's manned by lunatics who'll treat you as though you've the IQ of a breadcrumb.

I'm off to hide this thread now.

I'd probably place more importance on sterilising if you make the formula in advance. If the reason you need to sterilise bottles and nothing else is because milk is a perfect breeding ground for bacteria surely it only applies if you're making it in advance for it to sit around and breed? If you're feeding straight away it wouldn't have time to multiply to dangerous levels, surely.

I've read on here a good compromise way of doing it. You keep a jug of cooled boiled water handy. Boil kettle, put powder into bottle, measure out say 50% of the amount of water you need from the kettle and add to dissolve formula. Then top up with the cold water to the correct amount and it's immediately the correct temperature.

AlpinePony - just in case you've not hidden the thread - what the hell do you mean by "manned by lunatics who'll treat you as though you've the IQ of a breadcrumb"

OP HAS ASKED A QUESTION - she clearly wants info about formula feeding.

Knowing about safe formula feeding requires you to find things out - learned knowledge not inherent IQ.