Why is Harrow School Out of Favour: What Am I Missing?

[MrsHLQ]

First off, I’m well aware of the epic “diluted brand” thread about Harrow here. An interesting read and I’m not seeking to duplicate it.

This question comes from a different perspective: A positive one! I really like Harrow!

Following a number of visits, my family (including my DS) all think Harrow would be an excellent fit for my DS.

We have no prior connections to the school and yes the local area (outside the immediate “Hill”) is very far from being genteel, but that isn’t a deal breaker for us. Key for us was that we were very impressed by the ethos of the school. The fellowship and community is very strong and they seem to be interested in boys with a range of skills and interests, not just bookish whizz kids.

But strangely amongst my son’s friends (spread across two English prep schools with boarders), Harrow is very much out of favour.

By number of applications, Eton is the cohort’s number 1 choice (by a very long way), followed by Radley and then Winchester. All three are excellent schools and worthy of praise. Many boys have applied to 2 or 3 of these schools. But they have not applied to Harrow!

In fact, we do not know anyone else other than ourselves who were impressed by Harrow or who thought it would be a good fit for their son. A few people have said they were underwhelmed on the open days and others were simply disparaging without providing good reason.

But Everyone is being very coy about their own experiences/impressions of Harrow. So we are not getting any great insight or detail from them. Even one former Harrow pupil has put his son down for Eton and isn’t applying to Harrow but won’t say much about why! So frustrating!

We have visited a dozen senior schools, many of them at least twice and we thought Harrow was fantastic and right at the top of the tree in terms of fit. But we are clearly outliers.

Very strange as I thought (especially amongst this rarified group, there are no many prep school boarders) that Harrow would’ve been first or second choice for most boys. Definitely not the case at all. Typically fourth choice behind the other 3 boys schools I mention or even more commonly, they are just not applying to Harrow at all.

The views of others are not dissuading us, as “fit” is a very personal thing and Harrow seems to be a brilliant fit for our DS.

But why are so many boys (and their parents) who we know well who we think would be a good “fit” for Harrow now not even applying? They won’t tell us directly!

So the big questions for Mumsnet (where perhaps people can speak more freely) are:

Q1. What are we missing about Harrow that others have seen?

and

Q2. Why is Harrow so much out of favour right now with what would traditionally be considered its most eligible potential pupils?

There is a very easy answer to that. Any organisation, school or not, is as good as its leadership. Ethos and words are easy to say, actions and deliverability are the reality.

The Head at Harrow is somebody that likes status and has no leadership skills or real world experience. There is a massive lack of transparency and trust. The school is currently scared of who it is rather than championing who it is. Always looking over the shoulder and concerned of what may happen rather than embracing its strength and having direction.

I agree fit for DS is the most important and it may be the right place for him. If it is then go for it and take the opportunity of him gaining a place there, it’s still fundamentally a superb opportunity for his future. But also ask about bursaries to get a fee reduction. You will get one. 😄

We seem to be in the minority and are planning to turn down our son’s offer of a place at Eton for a place at Harrow. We loved the collegiate feel of the school and feel the pastoral care will be better. My interactions with Eton thus far have been quite disappointing.

Thank you, a thought provoking response

when you say the head of harrow has no real world experience, do you mean work experience outside teaching?

From his bio, he’s a career teacher who started off at Eton and then went to Winchester before Harrow so it seems he’s been around the top echelon of schools for a long time

that seems like a good bio to me.

Also, what makes you say there’s a lack of transparency and trust? I’m really keen to know.

do you mean between staff or between parents and staff?

thank you

@MrsHLQ School, business, charity...doens't matter, people need to be in the right place & role. You can have an absolutely amazing sales person, that doesn't make them a great CEO. A superb CEO may be quite ropey at all the 'parts' of the organisation. Somebody may be in the right company eg culture for them, but struggle in the wrong role, or perfect for the job but not that position within the culture of the place they are working. The Harrow Head was a phenomenal teacher and house master. There is no right and wrong here, for me it's about the right people being in the right roles - that's when you have a well functioning high achieving happy organisation. Where this doesn't align an organisation will be a bit out of kilter and give off a slightly wobbly feel even if people can't quite identify why, That's where Harrow is at the moment. The fundamentals are there, it is an amazing school and I am a big believer in what 'feels' right, so I am sure DS will thrive there, and you will have the peace of mind with your decision. I was simply answering your initial question about why it didn't have the buzz about it just now.

P.s. By 'real world experience' yes, I agree with everything you say, I was looking at this from a different perspective, that of preparing DS for the future.

Thank you. Very interesting indeed. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

You raise good points and I will give them some thought.

if you have any more to add please feel free to post here on this thread or DM me.

much appreciated

I actually do know lots of people who really do like Harrow, but I think you have almost answered your own question where you said: they seem to be interested in boys with a range of skills and interests, not just bookish whizz kids.

The boys in the other three "popular" schools you reference - Eton, Radley and Winchester - will all be very bright to the extent they would be seen as "bookish whizz kids" by most.

The primary reason Harrow falls behind in popularity is because it isn't as academically demanding. That isn't necessarily a damning thing. School is a lot more than just academics and if the fit feels as though they have the balance right for what you are looking for, I wouldn't distrust that feeling.

In short, it's sheer intellectual snobbery. It just isn't as demanding on academic entry criteria. Look for what you are wanting in a school.

We know boys who have gone to Eton, Radley and Winchester but no one we know has applied to Harrow despite a few dads who are Harrovians.

I'm guessing the other schools are more academic, less international and more accessible as we live in the west.

Interesting thanks

I think I we have established that Harrow is the most international of the 5 major boys schools, both anecdotally and also by the EAL statistics from ISI

Academically, Harrow has the reputation of being the least rigorous of the 5. That seems to be a very long held view.

Nowadays they don’t seem to publish GCSE or A levels in full and their comments on results make it hard to directly compare to other schools. I wonder why?

If anyone does have full GSCE and A level results for Harrow for the last 5 years I’d be interested to see them.

Harrow also send a lot of pupils to US university and I had heard that was because UK Uni is getting too competitive. But there could be other reasons. Again, if anyone knows anything it would be interesting to hear.

Harrow did until recently seem to have the mantle of grater focus on sport than academics, but the rugby teams are all getting trounced this year at every age group and from A to D teams. One can see that on their sports teams page which is publicly accessible.

They surely can’t be floundering at an Academics and sport these days can they?

The Government publishes A-Level and GCSE results every year. The average A-Level points scores for 2024 were:

Eton 50.57
Harrow 49.12
Winchester 48.55
Radley 48.08

Anything above 47 is very good, and 50+ is exceptional. Clearly, the notion that Harrow doesn't hold its own academically isn't really supported by the evidence.

You can play around with the scores here (but have to filter by local authority): https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&region=931&geographic=la&for=16to18&orderby=ks5.0.TALLPPE_ALEV_1618&orderdir=asc

I'm not sure it's so much that the US universities are less competitive as that UK universities tend to be "penalising" (or are under pressure to slow their intake of) privately-educated applicants. This makes the US a comparatively attractive possibility for applicants who have been at schools like Harrow. I don't think the overall standard required is lower, but Harrow, aware of the issue, has worked hard to create links to the US universities and programmes to prepare UK candidates for things like the SATS. It quite pragmatic.

They aren't floundering academically: they just aren't Eton or Winchester - which doesn't make them academically "soft". It just means it might be the right choice for boys who might be slightly less academically driven.

You seem quite down on Harrow tbh...

I think though you are focusing solely on results, which is generally accepted by universities to be not the full picture in academic roundedness.

This is super interesting thank you, I wasn’t aware that resource

Harrow is clearly more than holding its own at A levels!

so why the rep of being “less academic”? Perhaps a hangover form many years ago?

Certainly they don’t seem to be as academically selective on the way in but to get those results on the way out, there must be a massive value add, surely?

This is a really good point and one I agree with

also, I’m not down on Harrow! We love the school!

Given so many of my sons cohort are avoiding it right now, I want to find out why! I feel like I’m not “in the know”

or perhaps I am, and it is they who are not grasping Harrow properly!

Exam results might not be the "full picture" but they are the best metric we have. Which is why all UK universities, including Oxbridge, base their admissions on them.

I don’t know why Harrow doesn’t publish its results. It makes it appear that they must be sub-par when in fact they are really very good (even more so when you consider they are not creaming off the top academically).

For 2024 the percentage of GCSEs grade 9-7 was 88% (as compared to 92.7% at Eton) and the percentage of A-Levels grade A*-A was 70% (compared to 76.6% at Eton).

The school will provide you with their results if you ask.

As regards the head, I am told he knows all students by name. I would much prefer that to a CEO type who had little connection with his pupils.

I am sure you are grasping it properly.

And I don't think they are really "floundering" in any regard as I understand it.

That said, I'm not sure your friends are necessarily "getting it wrong" either. Definitely among the people I know who have not chosen it, it was because of an opinion that it is academically a little softer.

That isn't necessarily something that will be reflected in published results, as some schools teach " to the the exam" whereas others look for a deeper scholarship. Winchester famously teaches non-curriculum materials right through because of the way they want to mould the boys, and time is lost to this that could otherwise be on re-polishing exam material. Yet many people say that to work with or teach a Wykehamist is testament to this deeper scholastic base they get. I think for that reason parents with what you call "whizz kids" are often seeking that, but equally it is valid to see the education as a means to exam results, because, as @Oxonian2 has noted, they will form a substantial part of university applications, at least at first cut. It is my belief that the interviews are an important aspect for the very reason they seek to move beyond the results - but good results are in no sense a "bad" thing.

As a parent you will know what you really want for your son - and I don't think any of these are bad schools or a bad choice. Wonderful schools in fact and your DS is fortunate in many ways. But, in short answer to your question as to why people are choosing other schools over it, in general, and notwithstanding results here and there, Harrow is seen by many as less academic than those schools, and I think you can be pretty sure it is that, and not any hidden, nasty secrets, that are skewing the decisions of where to send their sons.

Thank you for the detail.

Using your stats for 2024 and adding Radley, Tonbridge, Winchester, we get:

GCSE (9-7)

Eton - 92.7%
Harrow - 88%
Radley - 85%
Tonbridge - 91%
Winchester - 92%

GCSE Ranking (Followed By National Rank Amongst Private Schools, According to TopSchoolguide.com league table for 2024)

1. Eton (19)
2. Winchester (20)
3. Tonbridge (29)
4. Harrow (37)
5. Radley (57)

A Level (A*-A)

Eton - 76.6%
Harrow - 70%
Radley - 67%
Tonbridge - 75%
Winchester - 69%

A level Ranking:

1. Eton (25)
2. Tonbridge (29)
3. Harrow (45)
4. Winchester (50)
5. Radley (61)

Eton clearly the most academic of these.

But this shows Harrow is holding its own academically against the other 4 schools in this cohort. Radley actually is worse on these (very narrow) metrics.

BUT I think these all all amazing results from 5 excellent schools, Harrow included!

They are all excellent.

I don't think it is as simple as equating public exam results with academic rigor (though some do), but they are all good schools, and the "feel" is important and will differ from family to family.

I wonder if they have taken a higher percentage of foreign students, particularly Chinese. This can be off putting to many middle class parents.

On the Harrow admissions policy webpage they have an entire section about how to apply from Hong Kong and Mainland China

in fact they define everyone else “not from Hong Kong or mainland China”

they are obviously really trying to attract the Chinese cohort and have out time and effort into doing so. (They also have a number of Harrow International schools in china.)

Big question: why are Harrow trying so hard to attract Chinese students to London? My understanding is that Harrow was always massively oversubscribed by UK (plus a few global) pupils. So why skew recruitment so much a single other country, namely China ?

https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1759852194/harrowschoolorguk/harrowschoolorguk/j6hn2ge9rwy6pe0jswjq/AdmissionsPolicy2025.pdf

That would be a good question to put to Dr. Sie. Have you spoken to him directly at all?

They are not the only school to have done this. Roedean has also become very Chinese focused.

While these pupils are very academic and hardworking, they don't always integrate well.

Agreed

i I would love to ask him but won’t

reasons:

• I would not want it to impact my sons chances of gaining a place by coming across as a difficult parent or someone whose ethos didn’t align with the school

• I would likely get a very slick, prepared answer that doesn’t actually get to the nuts and bolts of this issue.

This is a really good point.

This is a very helpful response, thank you.