Rejected by Eton, Radley and Teddies - Panicking!

[Elvisthedonkey]

DS is in Year 6 and sat his ISEB tests last term. We didn't do much practice at all but his headmaster said that he was around 115 in CAT scores and is in the top half of his year at a well-regarded prep. He gets Bs and Cs in his reports - including Bs in both English and Maths. Whilst he loves sport he is not particularly brilliant at anything - although he's not bad at football and plays for a local team. No musical/art/drama talents to speak of, sadly. His headmaster said he thought he would do very well in interviews though as he's chatty and has interesting things to say for himself.

So far, he has been rejected by Eton (a long shot!), Radley (another long shot) and Teddies - he wasn't even invited for an interview at any of them. He has had interviews at Sherborne and Bradfield (apparently they interview all applicants) - and we await the results.

I am really beginning to panic - how difficult is it to get into Bradfield (his first choice) and Sherborne? If he hasn't been invited for an interview at Teddies, does that mean he must have done pretty badly in the ISEB tests? I'm beginning to wonder if we should be making some last minute applications elsewhere...

Gosh thank you all so much for your advice and support - I’m so glad I posted on here.

I hadn’t even thought about schools requiring certain GCSE grades to do A levels - or about BTECs.

I need to sit down and give this some more thought and apply to some of the less big-name schools I think. I’ve spoken to our brilliant headmaster and he is also going to put in a word for DS with the registrars.

Thanks again and I will keep you all updated :)

I think you've gotten some great advice & reassurance here, OP and it sounds like it's help.

One potential reframing that I'll add: It's probably a blessing that your DS was rejected from Eton if applying was mostly about it being DH's old school and DH wanting him to apply. It can be tough enough for families to recognize that a top-name school isn't the best fit and turn down an offer without adding in a parent pulling for that school because of their own attachments to it. Taking that off the table means this process can just be about DS and finding the place he'll thrive. And I do think you'l find that place, so please don't panic.

You have my sympathies. A while back now, our academic DS was turned down from several schools at interview. Radley was still yr 7 entry for "late" applicants and at that point, you were supposed to get a definite yes or no - they gave us a maybe. Maturity was a big issue, it wasn't until the end of yr 7 that he was ready to really engage with the fact that he'd be moving on to another school in a year ...

I remember one (of many) chat with his prep Headmaster who commented how much easier it had been "back in the old days" when it was common for heads to be phoning round after common entrance to secure a place for a boy who'd not made their offer grades; and there was always a suitable place to be found somewhere.

I can see the value of certainty and advance planning with yr6 selection, but with boys (much more than girls I'd say), the reasons 13+ entry evolved do put some at a distinct disadvantage being assessed so far in advance.

I hope your son ends up with an offer at the right school for him.

[By the way, our DS sat academic scholarships and the only external tutoring we got was a bit of French in yr 7 because it was a major weakness]

I didn’t tutor my dc for year 6 ISEB but we did do a fair bit of exam practice using Atom. I do think this pays off in terms of getting them better at approaching the tests and making them quicker at understanding what is being asked and the approach they need to take, especially re the reasoning papers. The problem with ISEB is that it’s adaptive so if you start off making stupid mistakes it’s hard to work back to a decent grade and there’s a penalty to a “guess and move on” approach that you might advise on a normal exam.

In your position I would speak to his school about whether they feel his scores reflect ability. If not I’d get him to redo them in Year 7 and do a bit of practice work between now and then. His 90 average might reflect really terrible grades in two papers vs fairly respectable ones in the others. Doing some Atom might highlight where the problems are.

Totally agree that your head needs to earn his salary here. We had a similar situation a couple of years ago when our DS was rejected from Radley, Teddies and Stowe. Our head called Teddies and discovered his ISEB was lower than expected and went into overdrive with other schools. Many will take an interview, positive HM report etc over a low ISEB - it isn’t the be all and end all everywhere.
He’s now very happy at Uppingham, but we also had offers from several other schools in the end, going via year 7 entry. And we didn’t tutor at all - I specifically didn’t want him to be pushed into a school that wasn’t right for him.

Thanks, @Ambivax . Did he need to resit the ISEB tests for the year 7 entry? And if so did he do any better the second time around?

Dreading the thought already…

I called Stowe today and they said their average intake ISEB score is 110! I was a bit shocked by that - I always thought it wasn’t very hard to get into.

Also called Bryanston and they said that they only look at CAT scores - not ISEB - so phew! We’ll definitely go and see that as it looks lovely.

Yes he retook the ISEB in year 7 and did do better (and the prep school did some extra prep with him which is worth talking to them about). Bryanston sounds a good shout as well - it was too far from us. They do all find somewhere in the end though - but your head needs to pull his finger out!

In your situation I would expect the prep school head to be stepping up

Also suggest it would be worth speaking to Charles Banbury who is educational consultant - he is very good in crisis/difficult situations.

https://www.charlesbanbury.co.uk/

My son applied for these schools and got interviews at all of them, and he did NO tutoring at all for ISEB, and definitely did not do daily work during the summer or half term… His prep school did practice sessions with them as part of maths and English, and set them a few online tests for the holidays, but that was it.

This is not a boast, it is just I want to set the record straight that it is quite possible to do this without extra tutoring. Don’t get panicked into tutoring and ruining your child’s holidays because of FOMO.

Has he got places at all of them?

Also I’m not sure this is very helpful to someone who hasn’t got the interviews as it’s perfectly possible you were undershooting for your son. To give her the full picture if she tries again in year 7, it’s very normal for thd children to do a lot of atom practice ahead of the process at least at school and often at home. Our dcs are very naturally capable so I had mentioned to the head I didn’t feel they needed practice. His comment was that’s true in a real sense but the problem is the amount of practice others do means they have to do some to maintain their relative ranking.

@Calliopespa Don’t know yet if places. But interviews means he did all right in ISEB. If he doesn’t get places then fine, he was not good enough.

Dont know what you mean to say about undershooting. What is that? Eton, Radley and Teddies are not “safety schools”, for sure.

I just think tutoring is a bad idea and a massive waste of time and money for most children. If your children need tutoring to get into a school, how will they cope once they are there?

Oh I think we’ve crossed wires a bit. Op’s dc has done relatively poorly in the iseb . Clearly your DS didn’t, but then he might just be able in a way that with very little practice he met the standard for those schools and, given his natural level, other parents might have been tutoring him for the most competitive schools ( but it’s fine not to.) ( Hence the “ undershooting” comment but was typed in haste and only really meant SOME parents might have pushed a boy who can get those schools off no tutoring into the more competitive bracket.)

OP’s issue is that she would like Sherborne/ Bradfield etc and his head ( and his cats) suggest they are a good fit for him. But he dragged lower in the iseb so the point to Op is that he will be sitting in competition with dcs who have dove a lot of practice. Most schools cover off much of the preparation but it seems OP’s dc wasn’t given much practice which puts him at a relative disadvantage, The point about relative disadvantage was made to me by our head. As our dcs were quite capable I said surely the point is to just see where they land WITHOUT tutoring. He said originally, yes, that was the point but now the amount of tutoring means the results generally reflect tutored performance so to keep things relative everyone really needs to do some. It is helpful for them to work on timings, pacing etc. OP’s DS didn’t get the score she hoped do if he goes through the process next year he can bolster his relative performance by practising (no need to hire a tutor; he can just sign up for atom).

@Calliopespa
You are over-thinking this? Both those schools interview everyone regardless of ISEB. So a low ISEB score doesn’t matter so much as it would do at Radley or Eton. If OP’s son has a good report and does a good interview and his head and the OP makes it known they are super keen, he will get a place.

Yes, I agree. I’m pretty confident he will get either or both because they both weight the interviews and “ the whole child” aspect.
I’m afraid we will have to agree to disagree on the iseb practice if he doesn’t get his place however. Next round will be his last shot and many, many children do practice so I think it isn’t the best advice not to - esp given not practising won’t have worked well for him if he doesn’t get his places.

Try to not worry - maybe these schools weren’t right for your ds.
Two of ds’ classmates didn’t get places in the yr6 applications they made to very selective schools but got places in year 7 at other, still excellent, schools. One friend did take an offer to somewhere but wasn’t happy (he got cold feet re full boarding) and made late applications in yr7, he got a place in autumn term yr8 at another selective school with weekly boarding option.
If need be, just apply to more places as there is still 2 years and lots of movement occurs.

@Elvisthedonkey Stowe academics have improved considerably since the introduction of day pupils at the school. It did used to have a reputation for being the school that if you had the money then you’d get in, but no more (and rightly so!!!)

@Calliopespa

Practice is not the same as tutoring.

No it’s not. But I think most children actually get some sort of hybrid: mine practised at school and home and then got teacher or parental input as to where they went wrong. That’s effectively tutoring and if the school isn’t giving it ( and it seems they aren’t) and OP doesn’t have the time etc, it would need a tutor.

OP, I would be amazed if Pangbourne didn’t have spaces. We live near and know lots there and children move from all over the place to Pangbourne all the time if they don’t suit their previous schools. It always seems to have room. I have one at Bradfield and yes, they are very interested in the whole child although they, like Teddies, are also trying to drive up results and don’t have any Btec type sixth form options. Pangbourne have lots. The Oratory also will almost certainly have spaces and is now Co-Ed too. Please don’t worry; you’ll be fine.

Sherborne have btec options. My DD is at the girls school and has lots of friends there. Lovely boys.

Where does OP say she did not have the time to answer questions/problems her DC has with Atom homework?

That is not tutoring - that is just parenting.

What OP is really saying is that communications with the prep school are not very good. All prep schools worth salt work on ISEB at school and also set ISEB practice to children to do at home. If this school didn’t tell OP all this, and she didn’t ask, there is the problem.

Look Italian I think we are actually not saying such different things at this point, and the commonality is the relevant bit for OP, namely that it isn’t wise to go into the iseb process without the child well up to speed with the requirements. It was initially designed as a levelling test to be taken without preparation and to cut across differences in the teaching at individual schools. However - and here really is the salient bit - with the development of online services to practice a database of the types of questions that come up ( and there are a number of these online complete with the availability of tutors, some of whom can even be booked via these different test practice providers) - the disappointing reality is they are no longer being sat “cold.” Far from it. Op asked for advice as to her DS’ situation. Mine was that I think he still has a good chance at schools he is keen on, but that if he finds himself in the iseb prices next year, she should be aware that he is up against children many of whom ( and no, not all) do go in with a significant level of preparedness. I’m sorry you felt that’s misleading or wrongly expressed or whatever, but that’s still my advice, and she is free to pick and sort what she feels might help. Fwiw, I’ve still got crossed fingers for this year OP!

Hi all, quick update to say that DS has received an offer to a good school (one we thought he wouldn't get into with his ISEB results). Apparently he did well in the interview and in the school's internal assessments. It's a full boarding school though and I'm still not sure that that is right for him - so keeping our fingers crossed for Bradfield. I'm also looking at Pangbourne as I feel like that might be a good fit for him.

Thanks very much for all the advice and support - I'm hoping we won't have to resit the ISEBs next year as it seems like such a waste of time when they could spend the time working towards their CE exams.

Congratulations to you and your DS, @Elvisthedonkey, that's excellent news. I'm sure the school that appreciates him and recognises his strengths will also be the right place to get the best from him and give him a happy and positive experience.