What do I tell my children about police

[OverproofRum]

After reading articles about the young girl stripped searched in school, it has hit me like a ton of bricks that I may have been slightly complacent with my own dc who will be starting secondary in September on the rights they have or should at least know for when I'm not around.
Especially when it comes to stop and search, because being boys I know it's going to happen I just don't know when.

It's also sad that we have to prepare our children to be safe around those who are meant to protect them, so what did you do/dat to prepare your dc?

www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/know_your_rights_z-card.pdf

You need to get your DC to talk to younger male adults who are in their 20s, so have calmed down a bit about the harassment they face, as they will have tactics for dealing with stop and search e.g. don't wear dark coloured/black clothes.

You also need to gear them up that there are teachers who are blatantly racist especially if they are good at something or generally clever so don't expect their teachers to help them.

@RedWingBoots

www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/know_your_rights_z-card.pdf

You need to get your DC to talk to younger male adults who are in their 20s, so have calmed down a bit about the harassment they face, as they will have tactics for dealing with stop and search e.g. don't wear dark coloured/black clothes.

You also need to gear them up that there are teachers who are blatantly racist especially if they are good at something or generally clever so don't expect their teachers to help them.

Absolutely, alienatevthen further from valuing education by teaching them that teachers will be racist and not help them! 🙄😢

ChoiceMummy I didn't see any teachers helping or speaking up for the the innocent 15 year old black girl strip searched, on her period, on her exam day, on a false accusation. Did you?

My goodness how her teachers colluded in her humiliation. You think people like that should be respected? Shame on them I say for not safeguarding that child.

You think black students at that school have faith in their teachers?
You want me to teach my dgc to respect people like that?
I teach them never to trust anyone in authority 100 per cent.

Racist teachers exist. Even one, in a school, is one too many.

If you are a teacher then speak out about this, but don't plop here to hector a discussion. And don't post again claiming to be black. Because it's obvious from the tone and nature of your post, that you are not.

This is Black Mumsnet. A safe space to discuss matters affecting us and our families. Please respect it.

Some useful information here, re children and stop and search
www.justforkidslaw.org/what-we-do/fighting-change/campaigning/youth-justice/information-young-people

OP this is what I mean -
www.theguardian.com/education/2021/mar/24/british-schools-are-institutionally-racist-that-must-change-fast

There are black and asian teachers (and ex-teachers) who if you speak to them socially will talk about the racism they see against black pupils and receive themselves in schools.

Then there are school policies on things like "acceptable" hair styles and even if the school has been doing well if a new head comes it can result in shit like this - www.voice-online.co.uk/news/uk-news/2021/03/31/pimlico-academy-students-protest-schools-updated-uniform-policy/

“alienate them further from valuing education..”

So, the premise is that black children don’t value education?

That post speaks volumes to me about the mindset of the person who wrote it Maggie.

@EchoNan - yep

There’ll be a lot of that out there. Lots of victim blaming of child Q too.

I was hugely naive and ignorant and blinded by my own white privilige when my first ds was born. I failed to see the "micro" aggressions he was subjected to. Repeatedly. I still feel sick with shame when I think about it. Our conversations at home have changed completely from "listen to the teacher" (at all cost) to "trust your instinct" (at all cost). I failed my son and my husband terribly and it breaks my heart. OP prepare them .

Instead of listening to my son and what he was experiencing, I told him that what he was experiencing wasn't what he was experiencing. I have sincced learned its called "whitesplaining". Yep.
Its so shameful and painful to think about jow I let them both down.

@Maggiethecat ain't that the truth.
I veer between being so angry and tears of frustration for that child and her family.
And having to have these conversations with children of ours.

@Lndnmummy Sorry, I'd posted before I saw what you had written.
All we can do is our best, and learn from things we could have done better.
I remember the pile on here on BMN, from certain non black posters regarding that sticker your child was given at nursery. Hold your head up, you advocated for him.

@ChoiceMummy
Just stop. You’re on the wrong board.

ChoiceMummy
Do not @ me.
Enough of your racist tropes.

www.thejusticegap.com/the-strip-search-of-child-q-proves-no-child-is-safe-from-the-police/

"Section 11 of the Children Act 2004 may require chief police officers and other specified persons and bodies to ensure that in the discharge of their functions they have regard to the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of all persons under the age of 18. But ‘having regard’ to the need to safeguard is not the same as actual safeguarding."

...."of Black children strip-searched by the force: the review stated that in 2020/21, of the 25 children subject to ‘further searches’ in Hackney by police officers from the Central East Borough Command Unit, 15 were Black. Nearly every search (22) resulted in no further action taken. Black parents are all too aware of this. Many will have already had the talk with their offspring about the very real chance of ending up in the same predicament as Child Q, thanks to racist stereotyping"

Latest
justforkidslaw.org/news/update-our-work-child-q

“No child should be subjected to such an ordeal, and it is hoped that the school will reflect and consider the detrimental effects and negative impact that adultification, disproportionate sanctioning and the over policing of black children has on their emotional, physical, and mental wellbeing, particularly in light of the City and Hackney Safeguarding Children Partnership report and its findings."

Thank you for those links @EchoNan @RedWingBoots I will have a proper read of them tomorrow.

They already know the basics and that they're not allowed to answer any questions until they have an appropriate adult or solicitor present, but just sitting back and remembering how my brother was treated by police at that age and throughout his teens really got me thinking about how sad it is that they're going to be treated exactly the same.

Ds1 has already been stopped by police because "he fit the description" I'm not sure what description an 11 year old boy riding through the park with his mother fits, but that was just a small insight to what is to come.

When this happens, your heart breaks for them doesn't it? There is no gentle way really to have a talk about the very real fact that the people who are meant to look after you, aren't always to be trusted.

It's a very adult conversation to have with a young person. No matter how you try to get it over, you know that this conversation is so important, your child's well-being could depend on it. Things are never quite the same again.

I emphasise:

1. Be polite and respectful, don't try to run away, don't try and resist arrest.
2. Don't get into an argument with the police under any circumstances, even if an officer is trying to wind you up
3. Keep your hands in view all of the time, don't put them in your pockets
4. Your aim is to try and keep yourself safe, we will complain about mistreatment when you are safe and home.
5. Don't make any statements/admissions until you have a lawyer present.
6. Don't accept a teacher or another police officer as an " appropriate adult".
7. Try and stay as calm as can be.
8. When we see each other, be sure to tell me everything truthfully, so I can help.

I'm sure there is much more.....given what happened to child Q. I'm not sure if even this advice makes any difference.

I've just copied down your list of advice @EchoNan for the time when I have to have this conversation. Both my DC are under 6, but I know they'll be tall in future as their father is about 6'4". I've read so much about the adultification of Black children over the last couple of days, I think this conversation will likely be needed just before they start secondary school, so at around 10/11 years old. Heartbreaking.

@Starseeking. It's a beautiful sunny day here, my garden is full of daffodils. I've three rose bushes named after John Ystumllyn coming into leaf in the border. I'm so looking forward to seeking them bloom for the first time.

Meanwhile, a respectable young mum of primary age children, is copying down advice on how to act passive for when their children are stopped by the police, in years to come. Sooner, rather than later, because these boys will be tall, and so will look older than they are.

Lord, this is so sad to read x

There is also specific advice for when they are in shops e.g. always get a receipt and dispose of it when you are well away from the store, when they are driving/cycling e.g. stop where it is busy so there are witnesses, etc which is why I said it is worth them having conversations with adult black men. As women we can only tell them so much to protect themselves but I noticed with my nephews they listen more acutely to what the men are telling them especially when they included proper examples of when they got in trouble.

Sorry have been very busy this weekend so haven't had time to respond back.

I have read some of the links and will be having a talk with them at the weekend and be working with them over the next few months just to make sure its drummed into them.
We have also already had the talk about shops hoods/hats off, keep hands out of pockets etc and if you're ever stopped call me.

They do have uncles and their dad (all black)
But when they've spoken to them in their words it always seems like a lecture rather than a proper talk about what they need to know and they just don't take in what they say.

There is however a new youth club just opened up near us, all black owned and run so I am going to try and get them into there so they can see men/boys who will be able to talk about their experiences.

If you are approached by Police:

1. Am I being detained?
2. I will record you.
3. What is your name?
4. What is your badge number?
5. Under what power?

6 What are you looking for?

1. No personal details.

That sounds like advice from Green and Black Cross SkylineBright?
They usually give advice around protests, for adults.

I'm not so sure that a black child will make things any better for themselves by announcing that they are recording.

I'm not sure about a child not giving personal details.

Depressing as hell these conversations, but necessary.