West African music taught by a white (British) man

[thehighsandthelows]

Traditional West African drumming taught to some children. I was surprised to see a white man show up. Maybe naively I expected someone West African. Research shows mainly white, British employees. Some African performers featured. A lot of praise for traditional African music and reference to the training they have received in West Africa. It doesn't sit right with me but can't find similar opinions voiced? No one else seemed remotely surprised?! Lots of praise for them and positivity. Bookings for celebrating black history months! With no one black in the photos!! Grateful for any views.

Hi @EchoNan Yes am mixed race but pass. One parent Black and one white.

Some BMNers may agree, others not; OP may end up seeing things differently or not but Black mumsnetters have a right to talk about this without accusations of "reverse racism", especially from those who don't care about actual racism

Exactly.

Reminds me of having to code-switch at work in the 9-5days.

"What did you get up to weekend?"

'oh, just a quiet one'

When it wasn't quiet at all/had a great time/went visiting etc but you know if you even elaborate a little, it'll lead to being expected to provide full detail, all the ins n outs, beyond normal levels.

Always, always watching n beaking

Completely agree. We should aim to ensure children see themselves reflected in every situation they experience in school. Not just linked to colour or ethnicity, but across the whole gamut of diversity.

I totally agree. But music teaching is seen as a luxury and been cut back to the bare minimum . In some schools there’s no one who can even hammer out a tune on a piano for the kids to sing along to. My DB at the end of his career as a peripatetic music teacher was earning less then his 25 year old son’s entrance wage in an engineering job. Music education is not seen as important. It could be that the only drumming teacher they could get was the one who is now doing the job. In a properly funded service there’d be loads of relevant applicants for classes. It’s a shit situation where schools end up having to take who they can get.

OP doesn't have a problem solely because he has white skin, as you keep saying. OP is questioning this man's cultural and ethnic ties to what he's teaching, ESPECIALLY because of age-old cultural appropriation and exploitation of different aspects of Black cultures by White people. All the 'But what if a Black person from Wakanda did this or that' posts are missing the point.

And that's the thing. Some BMNers may agree, others not; OP may end up seeing things differently or not but Black mumsnetters have a right to talk about this without accusations of "reverse racism", especially from those who don't care about actual racism. We have this space to talk about things like this without constantly wading through those who're missing the point, deliberately or not.

Thank you @PutTheSinkInTheWashingMachine you've put this really well - was starting to feel like I was banging my head against the wall with some of these replies.

I think I know why it annoys me. It's because you need a certain amount of self confidence to put yourself forward and run a class. You have to believe that what you have to teach is interesting and important enough to have people listen and participate. It's about a type of self confidence that, let's be honest, needs to be much higher that average if your skin is slightly darker or your name clearly isn't English. So seeing a white person "swanning in" never questioning why they managed to get this role, is annoying.

Also this @seashellsunderthesand - my initial reaction was oh this feels awkward - but he had so much confidence! & looking around I didn't see even a flicker of doubt or suspicion on anyone's face. Like of course this music should be taught by Steve who learnt it on his gap year! Why on Earth not?! He didn't feel obligated to give any kind of introduction or explanation, was 100% confident he was the man for the job.

Always, always watching n beaking

Oh for sure! Always.

was starting to feel like I was banging my head against the wall with some of these replies.

It's the usual modus operandi. To get you frustrated enough to shut you up.

When it wasn't quiet at all/had a great time/went visiting etc but you know if you even elaborate a little, it'll lead to being expected to provide full detail, all the ins n outs, beyond normal levels.

Always, always watching n beaking

With genuine respect and desire to be informed can I ask what you mean? Working in the NHS in London, I worked mainly with black women of various nationalities. For me this was just a general, polite question. Do you prefer not to be asked this? Do you prefer never to be asked about your life outside of work? I genuinely want to do the right thing and won't come back and quibble or start asking more questions, however you respond. Of course if you'd prefer not to answer then that's completely fine too. Thanks.

It's the usual modus operandi. To get you frustrated enough to shut you up.

This makes it sound like a coordinated attack but don't you think it possible, if not more likely, that these posters just disagree with you and are vocalising their thoughts, which you happen to find frustrating?

Keep vocalising those thoughts! Never mind the space or whether you're welcome. & make sure to patronisingly correct those who doubt your intentions! They are overreacting and must be told so!

don't you think it possible, if not more likely, that these posters just disagree with you and are vocalising their thoughts, which you happen to find frustrating?

I joke but there's actually something about this that makes my skin crawl. There's a word I'm looking for but I can't put my finger on it...

@thehighsandthelows

don't you think it possible, if not more likely, that these posters just disagree with you and are vocalising their thoughts, which you happen to find frustrating?

I joke but there's actually something about this that makes my skin crawl. There's a word I'm looking for but I can't put my finger on it...

Easiest one would be gaslighting.

From "it's all in your head" to "you're actually your problem".
You've had it all on this thread.

Insidious. That's what I was thinking but couldn't think of the word! & yes - gaslighting definitely.

This is why I’m losing interest in BMN, can’t have a sensible discussion with likeminded black women without being invaded by the rest of Man which is undeniably 90% non-black. I now use other forums such as lipstick alley for discussions like this.

Man = MN

@thehighsandthelows I think it’s important to challenge racism if possible where I see it. If no one does it won’t ever be addressed. I’m sorry if you think I’m not “welcome” because I don’t agree with you but this is a public message board and I have every right to post. If it makes you uncomfortable perhaps you should consider if it’s because I have a point.

I am glad that the teacher has confidence to teach what (according to your earlier posts) he was qualified to teach. It’s great too that people didn’t react negatively to him because of the colour of his skin.

Many black people in London don’t have cultural ties to west Africa any more than white people. Skin colour doesn’t say if you are knowledgeable about west African drumming or not. I hope you will rethink your attitude towards this man.

I don't think the disclaimer at the top of the board is enough.

It seems white posters think they are ok to gaslight and whitesplain to shut black posters down when we challenge their views on society as no information we give them us ever enough.

I'm done. Thanks for a lot of great input (you know who you are). CB you are out of your fucking mind but good luck to you.

As I said Lipstick Alley!

My experience of working in schools is that the process goes like this:

We want to do some music. Hire white man. White man offers a wide range of music. Even better!

The process wouldn't have been:

We want our kids to learn about West African music. Let's find the best person to teach that.

3 Tuesday of posts on BMN

Posts that really only interest black women- like hair, food, some discussion but slow
Posts from openly white people asking for advice from black people- lots of response

Controversial Posts like these- lots of non-black MNers rushing to whitesplain, centre themselves

Tuesday = types!

'Muh opinion. Muh important, entitled opinion. I must give it. Surely it's my right because the world belongs to me!'

Reminds me of posts on FWR: "A man has arrived with opinions to tell us what we're doing wrong!"

BMN, that's us told!

My brother is a drummer, Samba rather than African but he's white ... are you saying he can't teach that either?

My DD is a French 19th century song specialist, she's English - is that wrong?

As long as the person is an expert in the style of music and the pieces are authentic then why does the the colour of their skin matter?

Obviously a person from west Africa who learned traditionally would be good to see (we are fans of world music and have been fortunate to see some of the greats) but a British born person with no links to west Africa person who happens to have dark skin in no more authentic than a white person.

Maybe the best thing is for them to call it west African style drumming to ensure that they are not marketing fraudulently - misrepresentation is not right.

Music is for all and talent doesn't have geographical boundaries.

Music is for all and talent doesn't have geographical boundaries.

But there’s ‘music’ and then there’s ‘world music’ …?