Glass ceiling in NHS and other institutions

[Honeybee2021]

Has anyone climbed the ladder at work to be told they are “overqualified” or “we want someone who fits in” when aiming for that pinnacle position. I see this as subtle way of saying that we won’t hire you because you are black let alone female and black. Currently experiencing this on the NHS.

Would like to hear opinions

@HitTheRoadJack2021
You've given some great advice.

I'm happy to share information & support

Just to add. Last night chatting to my friend and she told me a mutual friend (but more her friend) just made partner in a silver circle law firm. This woman is black Caribbean and under 40. This is the 3rd black solicitor I have heard make partner in a silver circle firm this year, and we are in April. So, I think it is working out for some of us.

That life is NOT for me, but if you are willing to do it, it is great we are getting those opportunities (and bringing home what is essentially a small lottery win every year can't be too hard to stomach!). But what I also love about these stories is that I know these people and they are unapologetically black. I don't work with them so I don't know how they move at work, but I know them to be very engaged in their communities, they also have black partners and children (which is not a slight on black people in interracial relationships, but I mean these people clearly did not at all feel they needed to have a white partner to get on) and one of them even has sista locs!

So, it is happening for some of us. In law, anyway!

Can I just add to that @Sugarintheplum, it's most definitely happening in law. One West African heritage lady (born and raised I the UK) under 40 I know has just made partner in a Magic Circle firm. Her husband is of similar background, as are their DC, and she is unapologetically Black too. I'm so pleased for her.

@Starseeking
@Sugarintheplum

I wish there was a like function on mumsnet, both of your comments have hit home with me. I have a friend, she was trained at one magic circle firm and moved to another. She black as well, from her stories getting to partner in these hostile environments is feat in itself. The mental fortitude required to get there is ''expert level'' as my ds says.
Having a mentor in these environments is often invaluable.

Most people in interracial relationships are not really doing it for the benefits of being with a white partner!

I mean these people clearly did not at all feel they needed to have a white partner to get on) and one of them even has sista locs

This is a strange observation. Who has said you need a white partner in order to progress in your career???

Ok, please let me be clear: I did not say black people need a white partner to get on or that most black people in interracial relationships are in it for benefits.

It is my conviction that having a white close family member (parent, spouse etc) can help a black person's life in many ways - jobs, career, personal finance, home ownership, education, health etc because this is a racist country. This being the case it follows (for me anyway) that some black people will choose a white partner with the advantages it confers in mind. Whether they think they 'need' the white partner or not, as in they could not possibly make it without a white partner, is another question. But again, it follows to me that some might indeed feel that way.

I have not said what I have not said, for eg that interracial relationships don't have their issues or are a walk in the park.

I don't want to derail the thread so I'll leave it there.

Thanks

This being the case it follows (for me anyway) that some black people will choose a white partner with the advantages it confers in mind

This is a horrible thing to imply and as a person in an interracial marriage I can assure you I am with my husband because I LOVE him. Not because I see him as providing a leg up in society.

Yes. I have this in my school. I am one of 2 non white members of staff (about 220 staff) in a school where only 18% of children are white. I’ve gone for numerous promotions where they have gone to external White people (usually men ) with a lot less experience. There’s a senior leadership team of 8, all white and 6 men.

The most recent promotion I didn’t get was literally a job description I could have written for myself, I excel at every single thing, every lesson observed gets outstanding in all criteria and still nope.

The other black staff member actually took the school to court and the head was found guilty of institutional racism. She employed someone with no experience over the black person. Since then not much has changed either.

I would move on but I love the children and families I teach.

@Noirdesir

Has he/she not just confirmed our criticism in the second paragraph. In any case I started this thread but my partner is white, so I certainly have not seen any advantages! Actually I don’t advertise my personal life and actually don’t use his surname at work so literally no one knows unless they ask! I’m
Not sure which advantages I could be getting... this may have some clout if you are actually half-Caucasian as sometimes visibly people can be racially ambiguous.

@OverTheRainbow88

Yes I really think it comes down to institutions- it was mentioned upthread that magic circle forms are changing but I wouldn’t consider them to be instititions.

Institutions!

I would consider them institutions, I would go as far as to consider them total institutions, in that they infiltrate most aspects of the employees life. Some lawyers barely leave the building, and they are set up that way with gyms on site, GP next door, canteens that serve 24 hours etc, beds on site, some offer accommodation etc.

I also think that in some fields once you get to a very senior position your background begins to take on more of a significance - you lifestyle, where you live, whether you are married, have children, where you send them to school, where you holiday, all sorts. You start to be invited to dinners with the big bosses, or you are expected to host others colleagues and their families. Sometimes you are even expected to shape your family for work. I know of one woman who was told NOT to have any more children or she wouldn't be promoted, I think someone said similar upthread.

I agree that what I spoke about with regards to partner choice is horrible. That just doesn't make it any less true. I am also bound to say that I have every faith that your marriages are built on love. It just doesn't follow to me that therefore they all are. I am very aware that people marry for many reasons besides or in addition to love. For example, we live in a heterocentric world. Lots of homosexual people marry straight partners because rightly or wrongly they believe life will be better that way. We live in a white supremacist part of the world, some black people marry white people for the same reason. Just to underline, I did not make the world so, it is thus and these are the outcomes.

I've known gay men and lesbian women marry straight partners. I've known black people marry white people because it helps. I've known non-Americans marry Americans for a green card. I've known people with little money marry people with lots of money. I've known people marry for passports.

I'm not saying you did, or all people do, or even that most do, I'm saying some do, a not insignificant number of people, marry for those kinds of reasons.

They just do. It makes perfect sense, too.

I'm not sure I'm the problem here....

Thanks

I'd agree with all of what you are saying Sugarintheplum. We all absorb from the world around us, and are susceptible to making the same conscious and unconscious decisions. Some may find it uncomfortable for that to be given a voice, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I've got friends who deliberately gave their children English names to try and protect them from bias when submitting CV's later in life. I doubt they'd admit that to their (mostly white) colleagues, lest it seem they thought race could be a factor in life.

I do not claim the quote but wholeheartedly agree "why do we focus on women smashing glass ceilings when the majority are drowning in the basement?"