Luther not being 'black enough'

[lovevlyt]

Head of diversity at BBC said Luther isn't black enough because he has 'no black friends' and doesn't 'eat Caribbean food'

Seriously, sometimes as a black person I feel like we are our own worst enemy.

We put so many strict boxes and enforce stereotypes on ourselves and then get annoyed/offended when other cultures do it to us?

I found it quite upsetting, actually and felt that we should as a community be more accepting of each other if we don't fit into the stereotype of 'blackness'.

Just sad really.

@Sugarintheplum

Hmm, I don't think she was saying all black people eat Caribbean food or call up their mates saying 'whaaatttttsss UUUPPPPP!' Like PP said, I'm pretty certain she was quoted out of context, and we all know the motive for that.

I think she is saying this black character, and many black characters are very 2D, when in reality they would be 3D people and diversity means showing the lives lived, too. Fr example, would a senior (maverick) black police detective's life really be anything like Luther's? Not at all. This is a fantasy programme, that's true, but to me it is very clear that Luther was likely written for a white lead originally, and then ID was cast and then nothing about the character was adjusted for that, and she is saying adjustments to make the character seem more real is what she would like to see.

I felt similar with Olivia Pope. In the earlier seasons anyway, I dropped off somewhere after season 2, she was not really a credible black woman in my eyes. I couldn't relate to her. Not that I hold the only valid standard of black womanhood, but she was just very deracinated. I thin later on her being black actually b=played out a little in the plot and supporting themes.

Olivia pope was based on a real black woman during the Bush administration. Shonda rhymes added a few things but that job, the woman and scandles (some of them were loosely real).

Yes, Luther was written for a white lead. Idris executed the role tgr same way he did in the wire. Leave this African/British brother from this nonsense.

Ah yes, I did know that about Olivia Pope! I read an interview with the woman she is based on once back then.

What I meant was less about what her characterisation did include, and more about what it did not. Like, for example, did real life Olivia Pope have no female black friends?? Did she have no truck with her mother or maternal and paternal family at all?? The portrayal was quite 2D until later seasons, if my memory serves me correctly.

One friend of mine laughed at Arabella's character in IMDY, she said over text 'hmm, what black woman raised by an African mother puts her passport into her pocket and walks into the sea..?.' I cracked up laughing. This is not a critique of Michael Coel, I do now have a corner in my heart for her. Sometimes our portrayal on TV is just not anything that would happen in real life. On IMDY actually, I am probably 5-8 years older than Arabella's character, and I watch that thinking 'rah, young black woman go on like that with drugs when they go abroad now?' And I did really wonder about leaving friends in clubs, because we NEVER EVER did that. That really was a very much white British girl thing to do (at least I thought?) and also the casual sex on hols. I don't really know anyone who did that? But yes, I am only just skimming the first few months of the millennial age, maybe things have progressed now?!

Anyway, I just think it unlikely that the BBC Diversty Head meant it in the way that it has been reported.

'rah, young black woman go on like that with drugs when they go abroad now?' And I did really wonder about leaving friends in clubs, because we NEVER EVER did that. That really was a very much white British girl thing to do (at least I thought?) and also the casual sex on hols. I don't really know anyone who did that? But yes, I am only just skimming the first few months of the millennial age, maybe things have progressed now?!

That's the point though, you and YOUR friendship group never did that, neither did mine but I'm hell as sure that some black people engage not just in drugs but also casual sex, not impossible to believe?!

I just think we need to stop with the stereotypes or if we are going to use them, not be offended when others box us into those types - it can't work both ways.

I also feel like her comment was very much from the non millennial generation and was basically old school way of thinking, and ignorant.

It's what can give people as another poster said insecurities and is basically a sense or othering but from within our own community.

Not 'black enough' to fit in or be accepted is basically the underlying tone of it.

On IMDY actually, I am probably 5-8 years older than Arabella's character, and I watch that thinking 'rah, young black woman go on like that with drugs when they go abroad now?' And I did really wonder about leaving friends in clubs, because we NEVER EVER did that. That really was a very much white British girl thing to do (at least I thought?) and also the casual sex on hols.

I'm older than you and yup young black women do alllll of this. I've been that friend not doing the drugs, not running around naked on the beach with random men, left in the club alone thinking my friend has gone to toilet but actually left with a man. Then gone back to the hotel and said friend is having sex in the shared hotel room so I had to sleep on the plastic chairs on the balcony. That friend is no longer a friend by the way, this nonsense occurred 20yrs ago kmt.

Sorry that was A LOT, it's cathartic to let it all out LoL.

But my point is, I thought black women didn't 'do' a lot of things based upon how I was raised. But I discovered the hard way, on several occasions, that there are plenty of black men and women that step outside of our perceived stereotypes on a regular basis.

Which is why I find that comment, made by the BBCs' Head of Diversity particularly jarring.

I also feel like her comment was very much from the non millennial generation and was basically old school way of thinking, and ignorant.

I'm from the non millennial generation, and don't think this way, we all need to do better with making assumptions and stereotypes. Black people across the generations are not monolithic.

Agreed! I definitely grew up with a mum who told me 'black girls don't do this', and 'black women don't do that' until I realised we do all of those things! If I recall correctly, Arabella or her friend even said 'black girls don't take coke in clubs' and then of course, they do just that!

On stereotypes: is eating Caribbean cuisine and having black friends stereotypical behaviour?

I wonder what we might want from our portrayals of black people. For sure we don't want them to be negative always. That's a given. But do we have ideas about 'realistic' portrayals, or is the very idea that there could be a realistic portrayal actually just pandering to stereotypes because black people are vast and varied and therefore are doing everything everyone else is?

That's more than enough from me, but I'll keep reading this thread and learning where I can. Ta

@lovevlyt

'rah, young black woman go on like that with drugs when they go abroad now?' And I did really wonder about leaving friends in clubs, because we NEVER EVER did that. That really was a very much white British girl thing to do (at least I thought?) and also the casual sex on hols. I don't really know anyone who did that? But yes, I am only just skimming the first few months of the millennial age, maybe things have progressed now?!

That's the point though, you and YOUR friendship group never did that, neither did mine but I'm hell as sure that some black people engage not just in drugs but also casual sex, not impossible to believe?!

I just think we need to stop with the stereotypes or if we are going to use them, not be offended when others box us into those types - it can't work both ways.

I also feel like her comment was very much from the non millennial generation and was basically old school way of thinking, and ignorant.

It's what can give people as another poster said insecurities and is basically a sense or othering but from within our own community.

Not 'black enough' to fit in or be accepted is basically the underlying tone of it.

My friends and I went out a lot and it was never black centered becuase the drink were always expensive with no seats. I would rather spend more and have fun. Arabella's nights out where not far off ours. It might be a London thing I don't know. I didnt see a problem. I just didn't take the drugs which is a huge thing.

“As Barack Obama put it - there is more than one way to be black”. Completely agree with is. I think her comments are probably going to do more harm than good. As PP have said, we don’t like being stereotyped, so why is she doing the same?

I’ve watched Luther and he’s basically a loner/damaged soul, so him having plenty of black friends is neither here nor there.

There are plenty of black people in this country who don’t fit a “black stereotype” and we need to just let people be.

I think he made a cup of tea once 😂

Think it’s ridiculous statement esp. in the context of the show. If you are a black person then you have a black experience. It’s impossible that your experience is not “black enough”

Luther was a bit of a cartoon but I can agree with an argument against whitewashing London (or pretty much most towns these days). I think the better argument is to have a wider representation of black experiences.