I think I might be drowning a bit

[Jux]

My mum died in September. It was expected but very quick - less than 4 weeks from dx to death. BUT it was a good death; she was in her 80s, ready to die and looking forward to meeting her maker and seeing my dad again.

That was OK. Big bro is executor and it is all being dealt with.

Then my little bro had a heart attack and died last Monday. I am not sure what I am doing posting about this. I don't know what I want from people. I can't take it in properly - yes, I know it's early days. The undertaker was a vile man, who wouldn't even look at me - would address everything he said to my big bro even when I'd asked the question (and as big bro is still working on mum's stuff, I'm dealing with little bro's). I had to go to London from Devon to his flat and police wouldn't give me the keys and I had to stay in a hotel which was OK but I wanted to be in my bro's flat with his stuff there and see where he was when they found him and the police eventually gave me a basic set of flat keys so I could get in, but I need keys to various storage units and all sorts of other things - his garage and god knows what. And I keep wondering if it's really all worth it, except I have dd, and I can't leave my big bro or dh and I really don't know what I'm saying or doing, but whatever it is, I don't really want it. I tried to distract myself on the X Factor thread, but it's not working.

oh Jux, am so for you that you have to deal with so much bollox. tisn't fair at all.

At least you weren't halfway down the motorway, that's the only positive! Or worse still, you'd already loaded the damn van up in London and it died on the way back.

Lots of strong vibes your way, your DH does sound like a bit of a knob but at least you have fab rellies who can help out with DD.

Am feeling quite a lot better now; thank you to everyone here, you've been really kind and helpful.

The musical community is really helping me too. A well-known music venue/pub in London are giving me the venue for the after-party for free. A couple of guitarists are checking out the storage units, listing everything and will help me sell it. The list goes on and on. I am so touched by the way these people - strangers to me - are piling in and helping. My brother inspired so much love and respect, that's why. Donating their services and putting in hours of extra work for him.

Of course not everything is rosy! The school threatened me with the education welfare officer on Thursday, but once I'd explained that I wasn't sending dd back until there was adequate support in place for her, and they'd told me what support was there, I did send her back, and they've told me I can take her out again next week so she can come down to London with me for the days before the funeral (dh is going to be working, so can't look after her).

I have had ups and downs aplenty, but am managing OK now (except when I got a Xmas card for my mum from one of the few old friends whom we hadn't managed to trace - I had to write and tell about both deaths, which was quite horrid.) I'm sure it's not over, but I'm sure I'll survive

A big thank you, again.

Fluffy, I haven't CATed because I need the anonymity of MN. Thank you so much for offering though; I am grateful and please don't take it as any sort of rejection. As I said, I need the anonymity, especially as my bro was such a public person.

The funeralwas on Monday. It was wonderful and horrible. The after party was at a well known music pub in London which is about to close, but at which he had played many times in teh early years, and at which my remaining brother, I and dh had been regular gig-attenders in our youth, though not generally together.

The crematorium was packed out, with standing room only and people trying to squeeze in all through. The speeches were so moving. The music was spot on.

I ended up too pissed (on only 3 glasses of wine, but I don't drink much), threw up a lot, left my bag in the taxi so the poor guy had to drive all the way back to the hotel through central London to give it back to me. I seem to have lost the copies of the speeches given to me, the cd of the music, and the card from the flowers from Bryan Ferry. I am gutted. Also, knackered, bewildered, horrified, and I cry quite a lot.

I am so moved and delighted by how much my brother was loved and respected by so many people. There is a hole. I am insecure about the rest of my family - cousins, uncles, aunts, brother, dd and dh, and almost don't want to talk to them, in case something happens.

I miss our cat. I almost miss the guinea-pigs, but that would be foolish!

There is nothing to do now, except wait for the public memorial in January.

I'm resurrecting this.

I have a huge problem concerning the effect this has all had on dd.

She saw the school nurse yesterday (we have been screaming at the school for help for ages now). The nurse is referring her to CAMHS, and has told me that dd finds the kitchen knives "tantalising" (dd's description). I have been advised to hide them all, and also any pills.

No idea what to say. You have all had such an awful time. I hope camhs can see your dd soon. It's not v mn but I'm sending you hugs.

How are you doing Jux?

This is all going to have a massive effect on your DD - you have to expect that. Talk talk talk talk talk - it will be so painful, but will help her so much ( and probably you).

Massive hugs to you.

My 10yo wants to die. I don't know what to do. Doesn't happen every day, does it?

I've got to go to bed. I'll take her in with me.

i am so sorr you are going through this horrible time.

my thoughts are with you and your family x

I'm so sorry too that this is happening to you.
You are not alone though, another poster has this problem, I will try to link the thread for you. (Unless you are the same poster using different names...)
Big hugs.

This is the one I was thinking of - I'm not sure if it is helpful to you but the appointment seems to have gone well so that is positive. here

Thank you. It does seem to have gone well, doesn't it? I hope it continues that way.

I am waiting for GP to call; have cried down the phone at the Samaritans - the man said it was the saddest thing he'd ever heard and was left speechless. I could barely speak.

I think I'll suggest dd rings Child Line, or the Samaritans, herself.

I wish I had something constructive to say. Glad you've spoken to the Samaritans. Your DD will get past this - you've all been so much but at 10 she doesn't have the maturity to deal with it, and the wanting to just escape from everything feelings are probably quite normal. The good thing is she's talking about it - is there some specific bereaved child counselling you could access? She'll be OK, though .

you've all been through so much

GP's called. He said he's had calls about htis today from school nurse, dd's counsellor (only once a month) and social services. He sounded a bit pissed off tbh, but whether with me or with something else I don't know. He's usually really kind and patient.

He says there's no emergency counselling we can access. He asked if dd was displaying abnormal behaviours at home then that would be cause for concern. Actually, she spends a lot of time watching tv, dvds, on the computer or ds, generally just zoning out in a screen.

He said to try to jolly her up. I've been doing that, but the last day or so have rendered me helpless, and I cry at the smallest thing. I am not capable of jollying her up. I will try though, but even the thought is making me cry.

I think what you said up thread about seeing if she might phone the Samaritans / Childline herself is a great idea and they may be able to offer more specific advice for your DD.

It sounds like your GP is a bit bewildered with what to do, which I would say in some ways is understandable because it is an unusual situation.

I am sorry you are crying a lot, but you know what they say, better out than in ! Just spending time with her will be enough for her I am sure, you don't necessarily need to feel a pressure to jolly her, just talking about a movie or programme of christmas, anything, would be enough. Grief is sad, there is nothing you can do to change that and just reassurance for her that you are ok, just sad etc., may help.

Thanks LadyBlahBlah. I think you're right.

You know what? I think this whole thing has been blown up out of proportion. You see, dd has said to me a couple of times since mum died (September) that she would like to die/commit suicide. I have, both times, said that that is understandable with what has happened and generally played it down, not wanting it to turn into a big issue with dd stuck in the middle, maybe thinking "I didn't really mean it but now I have to live it" as it were.

But now it's been made into a huge thing - huge - and I've been in a total panic about it and not reacting sensibly, so I haven't helped at all, but got all hysterical and not engaged brain.

I suspect dd wanted attention, felt that all the deaths we've had in the family etc aren't significant enough (girls at age 10 are a bit young to provide constant, long term sympathy aren't they? and so her friends at school haven't all been completely wonderful), so dd has added this as a further proof taht she is extremely upset. And then perhaps the nurse picked it up and ran with it a bit further than she needed to.

Or maybe I'm just in denial.

Jux, I think your last post makes some pretty good points. I don't have children, but I do remember how I felt at the age of 10 when my brother T died (he was ill, so it wasn't totally out of the blue - unlike your brother - and I didn't lose my mother at much the same time).

But this is how it was for me: part of how I felt was being upset for losing my brother, a lot of it was being upset for my mother, and part of it was being worried that something would happen to someone else I loved too. (T died 3 years after my aunt died - I was too young, everyone said, to really take that in.)

Perhaps your daughter feels a muddle of all these feelings too? As well as the anxieties you outline in your post.

I really don't think you are in denial.

But I can only imagine how hard it must be for you to deal with your own feelings as well as looking out for your daughter, especially if your H is not finding it easy to help either you or your daughter emotionally. (Sorry - am guessing that last bit from your earlier posts, so big apologies to you and to him if I've got that wrong.)

Thinking back (and it's a long time ago), I think that what would have helped me would have been:

1. Lots of cuddles. (Good for you as well as for your daughter, of course.)

1. Lots of reassurance that you/her dad/everyone else she loves is NOT going to leave her anytime soon. (This is a hard one, as of course you can't guarantee it - but I really think you should just cross your fingers and do it.)

1. Gentle pointing out that life isn't fair and so experience is different for everyone. I'm not putting this very well - but what I mean is that her friends haven't experienced the loss of anyone close to them. This makes your daughter feel the odd one out, perhaps. So you need to find a way of saying 'I know [best friend] still has her brother/grandma, so it's hard to for her to understand why your brother/grandma died. But she is still your friend.'

1. Please, please do not take this the wrong way (and many people may disagree with me here, I think), but please try not to show your distress too much in front of your daughter. OF COURSE you are distressed/upset/feel like howling - you have just lost two key people in your life! - but if your daughter is anything like me, she really needs to know that even though you are very sad (for want of a better term), you can a) go on being the dependable/safe mother she has always known; and b) she is still your very much loved little girl, and the fact that you love her is more important than the losses you have both suffered.

1. Just keep talking to her about the little things in life that you've always talked about - school things, friend things, little jokes/stories that you share. This just keeps things normal for her, as much as they can be.

Jux, I'm so aware that this post is all about your daughter and not about you. And I'm so aware that you are grieving in a way that hurts so much. Please believe me when I say - I share your pain. And it will get better, even though it doesn't feel like that now, even though you will never forget the brother and the mother that you loved.

Thinking of you, your daughter and all your family.

And - sorry - I know it's your daughter's uncle, not her brother, who has died.

Princess Fiorimonde, thank you so much for this post. I have needed someone to tell me what it is like from the child's pov for sooooo long without realising it.

1 I don't give her enough cuddles; we do have some which can go on for ages - watching a film together, curling up on sofa and falling asleep etc, but we don't do that often enough. We do have at least one big hug every day, but I think she could do with more.

2 I don't bring up the subject that me and dh are going nowhere but if she is worried then I do reassure her. Perhaps I should just drop it in when we're having a cuddle, that she's stuck with me for a long time? This particular aspect is exacerbated by my having ms. For some reason she has got it stuck in her head that ms will kill me, so if I'm a bit ill, and have to stay in bed, she thinks I'm going to die - this has been something she's worried about for years, but only admitted to last year. I have been trying to reassure her on this point since then, but I don't think it's gone beyond intellectual understanding into emotional understanding yet. I don't know what more I can do without belabouring the point and becoming annoying.

3 I think I know what you mean. DD's experience is more that her friends find it hard to offer continuous support and show patience with her sadness. I think they get a bit tired of having a child around who is never quite happy. This contributes to her anxiety about being at school, coupled with the fact that she's missed quite a lot and therefore is finding she has to work a bit harder (she's never really had to put her nose to the grindstone before). I think time will help with this, and probably not much else.

4 Yes, sometimes I do feel like howling, but I've always felt dh does enough of that for both of us and someone has to soldier on with 'normal' life. Luckily, for the first few weeks, I was spending a lot of time in London on my own, and could howl there if I wanted to, but mostly I've always been the type of person who doesn't do it in public - which includes dd and dh. DH would like me to cry a lot more but it doesn't help me that much. I have blurts for a day or so when some new thing pops up - usually when dd is at school, or I go and do it in my room - and then I get on with stuff.

I was very tearful as a result of this news about dd, but not any more. I just want to gird my loins and get things moving to help her; that's how I react. Having said that, I think it might also be a good thing for us to have a bit of a cry together, which we did when I first got the news. She knows I am sad, but I don't want to burden her (and it doesn't help me to give in to it too much either), and she is the type who would feel that she had to do something to make everything better if I got too upset, which wouldn't help her at all.

I am trying to keep things as normal as poss for her, but we haven't even got a Xmas tree yet. We have dd's presents but dh and I have yet to get each other gifts, there are still cards to do etc etc etc.

We still have her friends round, she is still singing in the choir, we still drag her out complaining vociferously to do shopping on Saturday morning etc etc. We do still have a laugh and a joke, but maybe not quite so much.

She and I have started a new music thing though - I pick out a tune on the piano (she chooses) and she sings along. I can't play, but I can read music and do the right hand. It's nice. We've got my brother's autoharp (an extraordinary instrument) which dd is beginning to play a bit. I've asked dh to write out the chords to some of the things we've been playing so she can strum the autoharp and sing while I play the piano badly!

Thank you so much for your time, Princess. You have really helped me focus my mind and see through the undergrowth.

Jux, everyone experiences things differently, of course, so my experience may be very different from that of your daughter and you. Your daughter sounds very thoughtful, as do you. The autoharp (I had to google it) is really interesting! How lovely that you can share music with your daughter like that.

I'm so sorry to learn about your MS, and can only hope it is currently in remission. Apologies if those words seem trite - I do not know what else to say, other than I wish you well.

I saw on the other thread your comment about your daughter seemingly skimming over the Winston's Wish information. I wonder if she just took the info in and maybe 'bookmarked' it internally, knowing she can come back to it another time if she wishes or needs to.

Howl whenever you need to - I can recommend its therapeutic qualities.

I'll resurrect this I'm sure, but I think I'm OK and see my way for the next few days - or until the next disaster strikes!

Thank you all of you for your help, kindness, support and suggestions.

omg hope there isnt a next disaster 4 u.life is not always fair.just hope and pray u have better luck in the new year.its a stupid thing 2 say try 2 be positive.