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Late partners Mother.......

42 replies

jmg1 · 28/04/2004 18:44

My Partner and Mother of our three children is dead. I do not get on with her Mother at all and she says many things that really irritate me but more importantly some things that I think are not good for the children.
For example she lives about 30 miles away but she told the children that she can hear what they say at all times even when she is at home!
Today my son said that she told him that Mummy is the boss. I agree with talking about their Mother to them but I think to say she is the boss (when she is dead) is a stupid thing to say. I don't want the children to become confused about what is factual and what is crap. These are just two examples of the things she says that I think are foolish and not neccesary.
These are other examples of some of her comments:
'You can?t spoil children'
'Children are there for you to mould into what you want them to be'
(after I mentioned I was looking for an au pair to help) 'be careful she might murder your children'
'If you die I will have three dogs and three children to look after'
'I wanted her to be perfect, she almost was'
'All stepmothers are evil, are you looking for a wife'
I mentioned that some people have said that I have done well looking after the children, running business and dealing with grief etc. she said ?you get single Mothers with four kids, who go to work every day and they do alright?
I said ?I haven?t come across anyone in that situation do you know anyone who is?
she said ?No, but you see it on TV?

Am I being too serious about these things?

OP posts:
DelGirl · 28/04/2004 23:35

jmg1 - I can see where you're coming from on your last post - it's very easy to dwell on things for too long - I know, i've been there, still am really. It is so hard to move forward but made especially difficult if your mil is trying to drag you back all the time thats why I would sincerely give her a wide berth if you possibly can. I don't know if your children are likely to be upset if they don't see their grandmother. The comments she has made to them are likely to be more hurtful of difficult for them to understand so, if you can I would distance yourself. If this is impossible perhaps only let her see them whilst you are there with her. hth - hope you manage to sleep well too.

nightowl · 28/04/2004 23:36

I agree, its like counselling i surpose...it makes you feel like absolute rubbish to start with but in the long run its probably better to get it out now than have it all come back to you in a few years.

I really feel for you, this woman obviously hasnt a clue what she's talking about. From what ive seen of you i think you're a great dad.

jmg1 · 29/04/2004 07:37

With regard to her seeing the kids I know she cares about them in her own way and there is no one else to come and see them. So I couldn't put a stop to her visits, maybe make them less frequent.
We don't talk anymore about anything so she doesn't have a pop at me now, probably because I have since had a go back at her, the difference being that the things I said to her were facts.
The ongoing issue is the things she says to the kids. I do not think it would be wise to confront her on this particular issue because she might tell the kids not to talk to me about these things that she says. At least this way I know some of what she is saying and I can try to counter it.
I don't think she has any idea how much power and control she and her ex husband had created over their daughter. Something my late Mother mentioned a long time ago, but I didn't really get it until after she took her life.

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 29/04/2004 08:00

jmg1, jsut wanted to say I'm glad you came back here.

kiwisbird · 29/04/2004 08:43

Hi
Reading some more about her, it seems she is in total denial of some horrendous ocurences, in her heart of hearts she must know about her son, and how her husband treated the family and she must know that despite finding a wonderful partner and having 3 gorgous kids and some kind of happiness, this still wasn't able to blot out the childhood traumas your partner recalled so vividly.
this is so tremendously sad, that you are here at all normal and feeling is a bloody miracle.
Sounds like she may be foisting her non acknowledged guilt back on to you, to avoid her having to take it.
I think you are right to reserve caution about her being around the children, she has a very distorted view of what constitutes happiness and normality IMHO.
I feel for you though, a truly rock and hard place to be caught up in, can't do right for doing wrong... Will leave this now as I am tending to cliches... Good luck, hope you find some peace today xx

NotReallyMe · 29/04/2004 10:56

I can relate to an awful lot of what your partner went through while growing up. The abuse was there, both physical and mental. The insults you mentioned are also identical. My self-esteem is also so low that if someone says "You look nice" I think that they are being sarcastic. I would be lying if I said that I had never considered ending it all. At my blackest moments I seriously believe that I would be doing my dp a favour by not being here any more. If I was determined to end it I know in my heart that nothing that anyone could say or do would be enough to make me change my mind. It's easy enough for me to say, jmg1, but I truly believe that you have no reason to feel guilty. Feel sad, hurt, even angry - but please don't feel guilty.

Kensington · 29/04/2004 12:21

I haven't changed my name because I am embarrassed but what I have to say could make me easily recognised if anyone I know logs onto here. Oh and the new name means nothing it is just what is written on my wrist rest after everything else I tried was already being used - so where are you I'mHiding and Undercoverlady??

My mother died when I was really small, before I was a year old and my father did not cope like you are jmg - I am so in awe of you and think perhaps if my father had been somewhat like you my life could have been totally different and most certainly happier.

He foisted us onto our grandparents - his mother and father - he did not get on with my maternal grandparents (my grandmother seems a lot like your wife's mother) and visited us occasionally and finally when I was 3.5 years he met a woman he decided he wanted to spend the rest of his life with - so they got married and had their life together without us until my grandparents told them they had to take us when I was 6 - I look back now and am so cross it makes me cry - if my grandparents had not forced them would I still be there?? - Anyway life wasn't great, my stepmonster beat us - sometimes quite severley and sometimes my father joined in - when I questioned her about the beatings she said he wanted her to be strict so we did not walk over her ior she just completely denies it happened - but we were too scared to speak most of the time - walking would have been quite difficult!!

My maternal grandparents did not like this woman - with good reason and so we were stopped from seeing them, my paternal grandparents apparently did not like her either but I have only recently found this out - apparently most of the family were concerned about her treatment of us but it was always swept under the carpet - she went on to have 2 children although my father had insisted that he did not want anymore children and they were treated like royalty compared to us, still are.

It makes me so sad even thinking about this - I have wanted to email you and tell you - how it is to be a generation away from all the pain, guilt and anguish that comes with the death of someone - its a little different as my father was driving dangerously and without due care and attention when he crashed the car killing my mother and seriously injuring my sister but he carries around an awful lot of guilt (the police were already to charge him and apparently they would have had it not been for the fact that his wife was dead and one of his daughters was critical in hospital) - he is just not man enough to confront that and seek help - as myself and my sister have about our problems. Do you think though that your MIL carries guilt around with her and cannot come to terms with it - it makes you really angry inside and a bit warped from what I can see of my father - maybe she realises that her treatment of your wife and things that happened that she did not address caused her to take her life but she can't confront these and is shirking the blame onto you - my father blames my sister - she was 3 at the time - he says she was jumping around in the back of the car and he turned round to sort her out when the accident happened - he was at the time going 50 mph so he should have been looking frontwards rather than berating a small child and a 3 year old at that!! My father also has never done anything wrong in his life - never done anything too gerat other than ignore his children and make a shit load of money really but everything I have done is a dissappointment - great man huh!!

My maternal grandmother was a bit starnge too - my mother was not her favourite child - and she lead her a terrible life and I think one of the problems she had was her guilt - she hated my father with good reason to a degree and hated my stepmother too but I think my father stopping us seeing her did us more harm than good - I look back now and think I could have understood so much more about my mother if I had known some of her family - I actually think a lot of what my maternal grandmother went through was slight insanity after my mother was killed - her way of coping with the grief in a way - my grandfather had been and still was a manic depressive so his depression just got worse and she had to cope with this too.

Anyway I have been waffling for ages - but there are a few things that I have been trying to say - guilt and grief make us react very differently and strangly and I believe that your MIL is not trying to damage the children or scare them by saying she can hear them but maybe she just wants to be part of their lives all of the time (sort of replacing her daughter) and this is her way of doing it - sort of saying that she is always there.

With reagrds to your MIL rewriting history with regard to your late wife and her past and family - it is easy to do my father and my grandmother to a degree would never admit to a lot of things that went on - to them my mother was an angel and they wanted to remember her life being as easy and painless as possible - its easy to grieve for a beautiful angel who has had a great life than a normal human who has had shit and stuff to deal with and who makes you feel guilty or angry - and rewriting it all is easy cause they are no longer there to question what has gone on.

Another thing is I have never really spoken to anyone about my mother - no one who knew her really and I wish I had but I was so small when she died and I did not remember her - my father used to get upset and drag me to the crematorium to look at her plaque but it meant nothing to me - I was being made to grieve for someone I did not know and could not remember and it scarded me and angered my father because I did not show the requisite amount of grief that he expected, I have cousins who lost their father too and they both say that they actually felt guilty for not being as sad as they felt their mother wanted them to be - one was 1 month and the other 2 when he was killed. - I don;t know what I am trying to say here but I think make sure your kids know that they can speak to you about their mother that you will answer them truthfully but not to foist your grief onto them - nothing to do with your post the last point but it is something I have always thought I would say to someone who was in that position from my own experience.

Above all your MIL seems slightly unbalanced - maybe she was before hand and your wifes death exacerbated that - maybe she is not lucid enough to think what is best to tell a child?? I was always told that mummy was above me and could see me and was in heaven - I know it is crap now but it was a way of my grandparents telling me that I did have a mother but she wasn't here without mentioning the words 'she is dead' -easier for them and I am sure they thought for me at the time.

A lot of what she says also seems to be her generational stuff about children - we know you can't mould children and it does not do children any good to be seen and not heard but I am sure these are things that lots of people of her generation believe in.

As for her comments about single mothers - this is just plain silly - believe you have done a great job, you are doing a great job, getting out of bed everyday and being there for your children and just functioning must be so hard and to do it everyday alone - you are truely inspirational and great father - don't lose sight of that no matter what she says - at the end of the day you are doing a better job alone than MIL did with a husband and without what you have had put on you.

Sorry for going on and on - its hard to write something like ths and hard to put into words what has happened and the pain and everything bubbles to the surface with every word I write soit is probably no help to you at all and just a load of waffle but its just something that I wanted to say from my experience.

jmg1 · 29/04/2004 12:23

NotReallyMe, Don't ever forget that you would not be doing your dp or anyone a favour?

I have done a lot of stuff in this World and I have seen wars and dead people, but nothing could have prepared me for the shock and horror I experienced when I found my partner dead and cold. She was obviously dead but my mind wouldn't accept it and I was thinking what can I do to help her.

I know my late partner thought the kids would be better off without her and no matter what I said about her being a brilliant Mother and the most important thing in the World for them and for me she did not believe me.

Another part of the problem is that my late sister killed herself 7 weeks after my partner. My sister had a long history of mental health problems and we lost count of how many times she tried to take her own life in the mid to late nineties. My sister was fond of my late partner. I think that coupled with the fact my Mother who was dying of cancer at the time, had become too ill to support my sister was the final straw.

Although some people who know me and knew my partner have said it is nothing to do with you! she would have done it even if she had never met you, I don't think anything can get rid of the guilt feelings.

This morning I was overwhelmed with feelings of wanting my partner to be alive, to see her and talk to her. She was the best friend I ever had.
At least I gave her a kiss goodbye the last time I saw her. She was basically throwing her Mother out of the house the last time she saw her.

OP posts:
NotReallyMe · 29/04/2004 13:24

jmg1 - If it makes you feel even a tiny bit better, following your story has given me a new perspective on things. I still truly belive that once I'd made the decision then no one would be able to convince me otherwise. But I feel that since reading about your story I would be a lot less likely to make that decision. Does that make any sense? You may not have been able to prevent your sister or partner from taking their own life but I think you may have helped me.

Thankyou.

jmg1 · 29/04/2004 18:34

kensington, There is a lot in your post and I do not know what to say in detail right now, but you do not need to apologise whatsoever and as with anyone please feel free contact me if you wish.

NotReallyMe, what you say does make sense and anything that would stop you making that decision is very important.

OP posts:
jmg1 · 29/04/2004 19:15

NotReallyMe, I have to ask you what can be done/said that could help you to build a better self esteem?
I still do not know what could have got through to my partner, but for your future and those close to you, anything that would help you with this has got to be a step in the right direction, do you agree?

OP posts:
NotReallyMe · 29/04/2004 19:37

I think for me it will be a long slow process to gain some self-esteem. The thing with this kind of abuse is that when it starts at a young age it's kind of like brain-washing. If an adult was to hear "You are nothing" and other words to that effect several times a day over a period of years, no matter how strong they were at the beginning eventually they would begin to believe it. A child who has never known anything different will have no previous strength to fall back on.
I guess at the moment with my dp I'm starting all over again. The "You're a great person" comments that I now hear from him are what people from normal families would hear all through childhood. I'm just beginning to go through that whole process now - kind of like a 'second childhood' IYSWIM.
I'm sure that one day I will be able to hear a compliment and not automatically assume that the person is taking the p*ss but I know that it won't be for a long time. I tend to have a similar mindset to the one I had as a child. When Iwas about 6yrs old I once complained that it was too cold. It was snowing outside, we had no c/h and I wasn't allowed to put on a jumper. My step-dad's response to this was to shove me outside into the back garden and make me stand outside in the snow for almost an hour wearing just a skirt and T-shirt. When I was finally allowed back in he said "There, now you know what it's REALLY like to be cold!" To this day I never complain to dp if I'm cold. It's the little things like that which stick into adulthood.
With dp's help I think I will one day get past these small things and see the bigger picture.

Thankyou for thinking of me when you so obviously have a lot to deal with yourself.

gothicmama · 29/04/2004 20:50

jmg1 I think you are a very strong person and should be proud that your children tell you what is happenning - this is very positive and allows you to discuss and correct what has been said
notreallyme one day it will click into place and you will see what your dp sees in you and believe that you are a beautiful and worthwhile person be kind to yourself

kalex · 29/04/2004 20:52

jmg nothing to add but {{{{{massive hugs{}}}}} You are doing a more than wonderful job and your kids are going to benefit from such a wonderful caring, switched on dad, who only has their very best interests at heart.

CountessDracula · 29/04/2004 20:53

jmg have told you what I think about this woman before. Not much to add just wanted to be supportive

Janh · 29/04/2004 20:59

jmg, boosts from me too.

Kensington and Notreallyme, have found your posts sad and very moving. For little children to lose a parent is bad enough in itself - to have dysfunctional relations (and especially steps) messing with your mind and self-confidence as well is too much.

You have both done so well to still be here with your heads held (reasonably) high. Be proud of yourselves. Put those bastards behind you.

Batters · 30/04/2004 12:14

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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