Learning at 4

[TwinSetAndPearls]

My dd is a september baby, so will be going to school next year, if she had been born a few weeks earlier she would be starting school this year.

Dd has always been very clever for her age, I know everyone says that about their kids but in my case it is true Everyone who comes into contact with her from nursery staff to doctors to passers by in the street comment on dd.

My dp is into teaching dd, she loves to sit and do the little workbooks, she is already doing basic arithmetic, writes and reads a few words as well as being a little sponge for obscure knowledge which she reproduces at odd moments. When she sits on a bus she has to count all the passengers and then add and take away as people get on and off. She came home with dp today whooping with delight about her new present, Oxford Tree flash cards

I am a little uneasy about this as I know that coming from a teaching/child psychology background I could be a pushy parent from hell. Dd does have lots of friends so I am not worried about her being disliked for being a swot but this a concern for the future. My ex wanted to send her to a local private school which is renowned for hothousing children , but I didn't let him as I want her to be as normal as possible. So I steer in the opposite direction and encourage her in more artistic things and develop her imagination and social skills.

But she does love "learning", she loves the fact that she can read some of her books and do sums. Should I just go with it, accept the fact that if she was born a few weeks earlier she would be doing a lot of this at school anyway.

emkana- I guess it is out of vogue and the school had agreed to us introducing reading and writing as long as we didn't do anything that contradicted what they were doing, they wanted us to use the same method as they used in reception, ie phonetics.

The nursery manager did have a look of horor as she said the words Letterland, she seemed to think it confused them. Although coming from an education background, I worked in the secondary sector so won't pretend to know why it is out of vogue. I am sure there are other mumsnetters on here who could though.

I am a primary teacher with more years experience than I care to admit! Letterland is out of 'fashion', as it were due, to the fact that children were not able to link the 'sounds' together but would say sammy snake (or whatever it is!) instead of the sound 's'. It became a problem when children were only being taught Letterland and no other phonic and decoding skills. However, I think that if a child finds it helps them and as long as it is used alongside other methods then what's the harm? Hope this helps!

You are right ( I would imagine- as I don't actually know) as with all things one method does not have all the answers.

Depsite using phonics with daughter we talk about kicking k and curly c and ssss like a snake. WE naturally employ as number of methods.

It's great though that your dd is really enjoying her learning and that you aer encouraging her. I have taught in reception for a number of years and the vast range of skills that children have when starting school is extreme - some are already reading, others can barely speak! Hopefully though she won't get bored as her teacher should be able to differentiate for her! My sister has a dd who is an August birthday and she always says that she is going to miss out on having her at home for an extra year iyswim. Your dd will be advantaged in many ways by being born in September as she should be really ready to start school. It sounds like you are doing a great job with her.

Thanks

I am glad I have dd at home for another year, although she could cope with the activities at school I don;t think she could cope with going all day every day.

It can be very tiring for the younger ones - I would occasionally have a few 'nappers' curled up and zonked out on the cushions in the book corner!

we are lucky - DS1's school is perfectly happy for him to only go in the mornings until he is ready to stay longer.

dd turns 4 in a couple of weeks so starts Reception full time in September. She is similarly enthusiastic about learning so I'm pleased the opportunity is there for her when she is ready to take it. She already loves "reading", flash cards, educational games and so on. Think balance is the key and you are right to encourage her creative and social side too.

Similarly dd's school say we can take them after lunch (1 ish) if they get tired. However in practice it is less intense in the afternoons anyway, with games, swimming, toy afternoon etc and most don't like to miss out. However I'm still a bit concerned because dd will have to be at school for ds' hours which are half an hour extra am and pm, plus a 20 minute drive making it a very long day.

I'm glad you said that thing about the child leading the way, Hattie. Because in spite of attending nursery from 10 months mixed with playgroup from 3yo, DS1 started school nearly 5yo & couldn't do most of the things that our preschool head suggested: he was especially reluctant to write his name. Could recognise his numbers and count, but basically, he didn't get to the standard that the preschool was suggesting they thought should be the minimum until he was 2/3 the way thru reception. His teacher said she had "no concerns whatsoever" with him, except that he got tired in the afternoons.

tbh, I'm very skeptical about the "importance" of these skills, and what advantage it may give children starting reception who can already do all these "academic" things. I guess we'll see how DS1 does; seems likely that DD will be more advanced, but she has always been more compliant/willing to do what you ask her to.

I think we do have a strange obsession with children's cognitive development, hence my concerns about dp trying to "teach" my daughter.

I share your scepticism, Zebra, (esp when considering the appalling literacy rates in this country). When my 18yo dd was approaching school age we were categorically told not to teach her the alphabet or encourage her to write because the school liked their new pupils to be a 'blank sheet' on which to work!! Neither of my boys (now age 30 and 26)could read or write before school-age, it wasn't the fashion back then. But they're both studying for PhD's now.

Thanks for the responses. I suppose that techers have to take into account the natural differences between boys of 4 and girls of 5 - it just seems like a huge difference to me. Was at a friends yesterday and our DSs (age 4) were running about madly while her DD (5.4) and a friend (5 on 1 Sept) were colouring, writing etc. What made me concerend is that the 5.4 yr old will be in Yr 1 while th 5 on 1 Sept will be in Reception with DS!

However my MIL was a reception teacher till she reitred 3 yrs ago and she reckons that they all catch up by about 7/8. Here's hoping!

Was also surprised that Letterland was out tof vogue - having bpought lots of books to start DS off! We are now on phonics from ELC - well we've bought them!

I remember reading some research that studied various other countries and their alternative teaching methods. A few particular countries ( i think Sweden was one) children do not start 'formal' education until 7 years, this including reading and writing. The studied compared those pupils through to adulthood, with British children through to adulthood. It concluded that there were no disadvantages to start learning later, in fact it hinted that those who start at 7years have better grounding in all other areas of development and with the obvious brain maturity they learnt at a very fast pace when they did start 'formal' education. So that confirms your MIL's comment monstersmum!

DG's cousins were (and a couple still are) educated in Sweden. They didn't start formal education until 7. They do have some form of kindergarten type thing before that though, but not with the same type of formal ed we expect of our 4 year olds. The eldest girl came over to the Uk when about 13 to do a year in an English school (family had considered coming back home but changed their made later). They were obviouslyconcerned how she would fit in with being 2 academic years behind or mssing. Infact she was way ahead in Maths and Langauages, and at least as good in everything else, even English which is obviously not their main langauage.

Even though DD loves learning, as said befo, I do rather wish she didn't have to start such formal learning in a classroom as early as 4.5yo. I guess we are lucky that she doesn't start until then, as we do have January intakes. I have no doubt that she will cope at school completely, but I still think having a more informal, nursery type approach (DD goes 2 full days a week) is nicier.

Agree with all of this. DS2 is very interested in reading. He seems to be reading some things (can't stop him- having had shades of hyperlexia with ds1 was very keen not to go there, but anyway). But writing...... Nah his fine motor skills are way too crap yet- and developmentally he needs to still be doing big gross motor things. Hate the idea of him being put off learning because his fine motor skills have taken a while to kick in......

My firend's youngest 2 are 4 year old twins- boy and girl- she got them to draw a picture last time I was over. Hilarious- her girls was brilliant- small, neat, detailed. Her son's was basically a large scribble

I started school in sweden at 7 1/2!! When my children first started learning letters and numbers in nursery I was really worried, but I soon realised they really enjoyed it and it wasn't too much of it. I also dreaded the British school system, but have been pleasantly suprised by what I think is a good combination of play and learning. I now think children enjoy learning from an early age, but I don't think starting early necessarily give them a life-long advantage. I see other problems with the Birtish school system, such as singling out pupils very early in terms of what level they are at. I think it's a danger they then stay at that level. Children mature very differently.
I was myself a bright child academically. I was reading and writing from the age of 4. But my peers caught up with me around the age of 12 and I wouldn't say I am a particularly academic person at all. I think I just matured more quickly in that way.

From a teachers perspectve, the Foundation Stage (3-5 yrs) is supposed to be more free play and in line with European education. It is such a fun and exciting curriculum to teach as there is so much scope for creativity and imagination. Unfortunately, the stumbling block is that once children go into Year 1 (5-6yrs) there is an expectation that they begin the more 'formal' part of their education. As a teacher, you are far more restricted with what you can do. It is a real shame that British children are the most tested and examined in the world and there does seem to be too much pressure for them at such a delicate formative age.
All this talk is beginning to almost make me look forward to the end of my maternity leave and my return to the classroom ... well, nearly!