teachers/schools: do they ever really help the children?

[crossma]

Sorry but a lot of anger here... calling all teachers, lunchtime supervisors, parents whose children have experienced bullies/aggression in the playground...
if a child is not having fun at breaks/playtime, due to children who "don't know any better" (so it seems to be an excuse for letting them continue with their bad behaviour), has a school/school employee ever been able to make things better or does it just get worse once parents start to complain?

yes, I am curious about that statement too - please can you tell us more crossmum?

crossma, rather (sorry about getting your name wrong)

Me too Crossma - if it was a teacher then they sound like they're bullying too.

it was actually another parent who told me "surprising how much children get to hear?"

This was part of a conversation we had about bullying and it was her second dd who was in year 2 at the same school a few years ago now. Her dd had a problem which got considerably worse before it got better. Unfortunately the parent in question doesn't chat that much and I felt as if I had to prod too much to find out any useful info. I think she is wary in case things get back to certain people, seems like a question of once bitten twice shy I think. That's why mumsnet is helpful as I could be talking to someone local but we don't know!

Stripymouse, when you have time, your strategies to try out would still be appreciated.

crossma - just logged on - having a mega tricky time at the mo - my 2 yr old DD had her HIB booster on Tues afternoon and is suffering a "rare and unusual" reaction - vomiting, diarrohea, dehdyration, rash, very high temp etc. etc. - busy dealing with doctors, threatened hospital and drip if we don?t control the temp and dehydration very soon so am taking turns with DH battling with a spoonful of water at a time and sponging her down...promise to get back really soon and am thinking about my reply now.. think she is turning the corner as she is starting to drink again (thank goodness). Will post as soon as I can get my head straight.

stripyMouse, so sorry to hear your dd is having such a bad time. Hope she is through it by now. It's awful I know from my first ds and my dd is due soon for the hib booster so as you can imagine I am not looking forward to it on her behalf. Don't worry about responding give yourselves time. Whenever you have chance I would be grateful and I'll just keep looking out for your reply. Don't worry about us you just get back to normal at your end. It does sound really bad. Best wishes.

crossma - life is just about normal again. Children can go downhill so fast and yet seem to bounce back relatively easily, thank goodness. We had a really stressful couple of nights and days but she is well out of danger now and all our spoon feeding has paid off - managed to avoid the hospital drip after a little umming and urring on the GP?s behalf.

I have been thinking a lot about your dilemma and have realised how difficult it is from the parent?s perspective - so many of my strategies really only would work from within a school environment (discussion work, role play, empathy sessions, buddy systems, with older children counselling younger ones - better in secondary I guess, assertiveness education, class projects and plays etc. etc. to help prevent and deal with problems. If they do crop up there is also loads of tactics other than just discipline - bully needs to understand and accept why they did it (jealousy, other problems outside, behaviour transferral etc.etc. ) then empathise with their victim in order to genuinely feel sorry, go through the guilt and apology process followed by appropriate punishment and behaviour checking /monitoring period etc. etc. Bullies often have outside reasons to help explain their behaviour - they need to realise them and learn that it may explain it but not excuse it and better/fairer to deal with the real issues. The victim is often involved in this process as well as some simple "debriefing' of their own to help them understand that they are not at fault, how to avoid/deal with bullys in the future etc. etc. It does work , I promise.
So, as a parent, what on earth would I do? Well, I guess first of all i would follow standard precedure and go straight to the school - as it has gone on for so long I would bepass the class teacher and go striaght to see the headteacher at the earliest opportunity: just a few suggestions (hope it isn?t too obvious...) I am going to presume that the school needs abit of convincing to act on this rather than being as efficient as many as it has gone on for a while and they haven?t done anything yet..

1. Write a letter to the head teacher to request an interview. I would include brief outline of your concerns and examples of incidents along with the time scale. Also include strategies both your son has tried - inform teachers, told the bully "no" etc., avoidance tactics and stress that as this seems to be failing to resolve itself and is now having a real affect on your son?s behaviour and happiness, then you wish to have the matter dealt with once and for all. Keep it calm, non accusatory and factual, not too long (unlike my posts!!) Make sure that you stress the "working together to resolve this problem" angle rather than the "what are you going to do about it" stance that could irritate the head and cause problems.

2. Next I would prepare myself for the interview, gathering all the facts together in a neat concise list, names, dates, actual incidents, which staff your son has told and what their response was, if any. I would also prepare a list of questions to ask the headteacher just in case it proves trickier than it really should. Some examples might be - how many staff are on playground duty, can all areas of the playground be observed at all times? If so, why isn?t this type of obvious agressive behaviour picked up and stopped? One off missed problem is perhaps undertandable, but loads all ignored? Has there been any internal documenting of your son?s complaints to staff? If not why not? If they have been followed up, why weren?t you involved? problem still there so obviously failed - what strategies could the school follow now? Does the school have a bullying policy? If the head seems keen to play this down and not happy to refer to it as bullying then ask them to give you a working definition of bullying...should help make them accept the obvious then. Ask the head if there is an school education programme dealing with bullying such as classwork or role plays - it is usual in most schools. How are pupils expected to be encouraged to speak to teachers about their problems is they are not seen to follow them up and support them? I am sure you can come up with plenty of your own but there are a few to get you going.

3. In the interview I would take someone with you for moral support and to compare notes afterwards. I would also take a notepad and take notes at the time - just explain that you like to be organised and be clear in your mind exactly what was said and agreed upon. Should make them more careful about fobbing you off! Do all those silly things to help make you feel confident and positive - even dress the part and don?t apologise for taking up their time etc. - this is their job and they have important questions to answer. Don?t leave until you are happy that everything has been addressed. If they do fob you off with the old one about needing more time to collect more facts, speak to teachers involved etc. agree that a follow up meeting is arranged there and then so that they can?t wiggle out of it or delay it any further. Be assertive and confident - it is not meddling, and doesn?t have to be seen as confrontational.

4. Depends on how your meeting goes as to what happens next - hopefully the head would be stirred into resolving it effectively once and for all. If it doesn?t seem to be working, don?t be frightened to phone him/her directly and restate your concerns - keep pushing forward until they have doen their job, after all it isn?t hard and it is their job.

5. To help your son outside of this, one good way may be to help him strengthen his friendships outside of school and find time away from this boy where he feels relaxed and confident enough to join in more - maybe invite a group of his mates over for tea and football at the park, or a video, even sleep over - whatever you feel happy doing. Also a good time to watch him interact with his peers and see for yourself exactly how he getting on and how they treat him. Perhaps consider helping him find another interest to occupy his mind and take off his focus from school - such as music lessons, swimming, karate etc. - new friends also a bonus, can boost his confidence etc. Talk to him about school (sure you are doing this already) - the old thing of problem shared is a problem halved is really true. While it is still unresolved (hopefully for only a few days) this can help him at least feel not alone by confiding in you. Try not to show how shocked you are, be sympathetic and as calm as you can so as not to make him feel worse about it (if at all possible). I wouldn?t waste time trying to get him to stand up for himself or suggest strategies for talking to this boy - it is clearly not working and he is just too young. It could also make him feel even worse if he thinks there is soemthing more he could be doing to make it better and still can?t sort it out. Is there any other boys/girls he likes that don?t play anywhere near this lad that he could join in with for a while? Children tend to have territories and might be worth avoiding one area of the playground for a bit even if it means playing with different children - could help him make more friends...Encourage him to keep telling a teacher, make sure he doesn?t see it as telling tales - instead see it as him standing up for all of those other children too frightened to speak up - he is the brave one. That is all I can think of at the moment. Hope you can find it in you to contact the school and get vocal! Ignore that silly old trump who suggested that it is better to keep quiet. What a stupid and childish reaction - just how bullying thrives, with people not prepared to take the risk and stand up for each other. By doing nothing it just won?t change and could even get worse - the bigger they get, the bigger the bruises are..
   HTH -sorry it is rambly, i reckon I have about 24 hours of sleep owing to me!! I realise a lot of this is fairly obvious stuff but easier just to type and let you take what you need from it (if anything).
   Please stay positive - you can overcome this without resorting to moving, honestly - even if you need to go in that office 10 times to make your point, your son is worth it every time. You never know, the teachers may surprise you and deal with it straight away - if it were my school they would.

THANK YOU StripyMouse. Glad to read dd has bounced back - hope you are relaxed once again and enjoying motherhood, it's really horrible when they become ill from injections that are to help them keep well.

It was really good to read all your points. Also good to know that I was actually thinking along the right lines, now I can feel more confident in what I am doing. DH and I have an appointment pencilled in for next Tuesday afternoon assuming the head is back then. Point 4 was really useful as we are doing most of the things you raised so that's good to know also I was wondering if I wasn't helping him really. I will ignore the "silly old trump" but to be honest it is niggling away but I've got to try and sort this out once and for all. One thing that has happened is ds seemed to see an opportunity to talk to the child about what is going on and although the child said he didn't understand ds seemed to try to explain further but then said the child walked off. At least the child left ds alone that day and the rest of Friday too. Don't quite know how to take this but not getting too excited and want to find out exactly what the school has been doing in the head's absence. Also if the child has decided to turn his attention elsewhere would be cross if the school just left things as they were as they are not helping anyone then. better finish I could go on and on! Also must not get excited thinking maybe the child has decided to leave ds alone as it may be short-lived so can't let it just drop because of two days being ok can I?!