asperger disorder.

[Tiff]

i have just joined mumsnet and read some of the discussions with interest. My son is now 8 years old and although we knew from birth things weren't right he has only just been diagnosed with ADHD, asperger and dyspraxia. It took years of seeing child psychiatrists (who blamed bad behaviour), psychologists(dsyfuntional family) before i finally had to go private. I took him to see a paediatrician who finally listened to all i said and made the diagnosis.
my son has been put on medication and although it is early days we are noticing a difference. i realise that not every child needs the medication and some parents are reluctant to try it, but my believe, when you have a child like that is to explore every option.
we have found that as far as diet is related he has to avoid 'E' numbers especially colours and we have started to look at organic foods very closely.
I would just like to tell parents going through hell with a challenging child, Don't GIVE UP, at the end of the day only you can fight for your child.
does anyone else have any experience of a child with multi- conditions or asperger and if so do they have any tips they would like to share, also if you just want a chat after a bad day, get in touch.

Best bit is i wrote all that as a way to rid myself of the anger i felt yesterday after my mum said that
"IT'S A PITY THAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE ANTIDEPRESSANTS JUST BECAUSE OF HOW YOUR CHILDREN BEHAVE.YOU DESERVE SO MUCH BETTER.I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU."
Now ...... i may be on antidepressants and MAYBE i wouldn't be if i had the 2.2 'normal' children,with two cars,a detatched home(plus swimming pool)and enough time on my hands to actually wonder what to do with my time......BUT INSTEAD I HAVE A LIFE WHICH I HAVE THE SATISFACTION OF ACTUALLY HELPING AND INFLUENCING MY BOYS SO THEY GET THE BEST OUT OF THEIR LIVES....does that make sense....what i'm trying to say is that if i had 3 'normal' boys i would probably be excluded from their activities rather than 'having' to constantly be involved with what they say/wear/do/eat/play with/......etc....now if i'd had a choice i'm sure i would have picked the option to share their lives rather than my childhood which involved moving house/changing schools/houseproud mum(peeing in a bucket cos she wouldn't let us use the toilet if she'd just cleaned the bathroom!)/1 toy out to play with at a time/and hours spent chewing meat and not leaving the table till it was swallowed.
What hurts most is that this is my boys' GRANDMOTHER.......what kind of world is it when their granny thinks like this!!

We have been wondering for a while if our DD1,3 has AS. She has a dxd of CP and global delevopmental delays. She has High frequency hearing loss too.
She is obsessed with knifes, sissors and water. She is very boyish in her manner, very forceful. Can't speak very well, has the speech of a 24 month old. Gets very angry and has no friends she pinchs, bites and kicks. She does the violent hugs and hurts me. Doesn't allow anyone to kiss her, you have to kiss her head if she allows you too, and its only mummy and dadyy she lets do that, and that is very recent.
She can't contrate and she is also obsessed with disney videos, its the only thing that will keep her quiet.
Everyone I have spoken to insists that she can't have AS as she has eye contact!! But a teacher at a AS school told me that it old news and that isn't true.
GOS told me that she didn't think that DD1 has Austim , at the moment, but I don't believe that.
What do you all think?

ref the eye contact.......Tom generally has good eye contact....and only watched Tots TV videos - also unlike the stereotypical image ....he has no probs with routines...he doesn't have any and is very flexible- whereas my 6 yr old (who i parent as if he has aspergers) is greatly troubled by changes to routines and surroundings and has incredibly intense eye contact- almost burns your face with his staring and plays constantly with whatever toy he's into at the moment (recently spent 3 days building towers out of 'jenga' wooden blocks - and nothing else.he won't eat breakfast if he's took his pyjamas off- and won't eat supper till he's got them on!

It's quite commo for children with any sort of delay to have autistic like traits. I guess they only diagnose if it becomes enough of a problem iyswim. Agree about the eye contact though. Ds1's eye contact can be very good - but he's definitely autistic. All his reports mention how good his eye contact is.

My son had NO eye contact when he was younger. That has totally changed and his eye contact is very good, he even has an eye contact game where he stares at you and looks away as soon as you turn round. This has been described by his school as "seeking attention through excessive eye contact", that really made me laugh because can you imagine an autistic child having too much eye contact I never thought I would see the day.....

That's hilarious davros. It always makes me laugh when ds2 spends ages lining everything up only for ds1 to come and instantly knock it all over

What things should I mention at her next hospital appointment then?? I have mentioned the obsessions before, I suppose the kissing things should be mentioned. I don't believe she had Austim but I am sure she has AS. Another thing is she has to have her hoodup on her coat all the time!! LOL

Oh and she loves to touch your hands with her hands, your feet with her feet. She rubbed the hands together and is very forceful. SHe picks at the bones in your hands. When you take your hands away she grabs it back.

my (undiagnosed AS) son also went through a phase of only wearing sweatshirts with hoods (and wore them up all the time!) though would tolerate other 'hoodless' clothes. now tends to pull the hem of his stretchy type tshirts and sweatshirts up so to cover his arms and elbows and even head- to the point that i gradually changed most of his tops to 'non-stretchy' button through shirts.he has also recently began to repeat the 'key' or last word in much that i say- tends to be mainly when i ask him a question- and also often replaces 'i' or 'my' with his name....eg "leigh wants a drink" or "it's leighs drink"...instead of "Please can i have a drink" (Yep....i know he misses please too!)
Now cos i already have a son with Aspergers....people tell me that this is just 'copycat' behaviour....however this is the 1st child i have had doing this....so that can't be the case.
the 'not-looking-for-aspergers-me says that he does all this for fun/to sound cute etc....but as he will be 7 next month i feel he's a bit to old for this!
he loves the structure of school so alot of the behaviours i see are not displayed there....so of course the powers that be say he's not AS- however i believe that he simply loves the rules and rouitines at school and at home/town/park etc he struggles cos there are no routines?????
I think i read somewhere that ASPERGERS paks around 7-9 years old.... so wonder if when he goes back thurs should i give his new teacher a list of these 'oddities' or do i keep quiet (he's being formally assessed in oct)

Bagpipes - sorry not to come back to you on this before - been busy. Ds1's over-enthusiastic bodily contact was first seen as just sort of Tiggerish, and didn't really cause any problems until he moved from a private nursery to a local playgroup at nearly 4. They were very strict and rather old-fashioned there, and kept saying his behaviour was completely inappropriate/unacceptable/ they'd never seen anything like it before etc etc. We thought they were just useless, and moved him to another more tolerant place where they said after 2 terms 'he lacks the strategies required for successful social interaction' (you mean he's a thug, we thought ) and 'he can at times be extremely aggressive, both verbally and physically'. But they didn't offer any further assessment, and felt it was something he just had to mature out of, and that he was more than ready for the structure of school. But school wasn't exactly ready for him, and it was in the first term there that the question of a diagnosis was first raised, mainly because of the huge difficulties in getting him to settle down and do as he was told in a class of 30. With hindsight, I suppose the over exuberant hugging etc could have been seen as a 'sign' of Aspergers, but in our case it wasn't. I also think ds1's first year at school would have been miles easier if we had been alerted to problems sooner, and been able to get some extra help in for him before it all went wrong.
He's now two weeks into his second year at school, with extra help laid on, and so far, so good - we're just hoping this will continue..
So, I would push for further assessment for yours sooner rather than later, I don't think there's much to lose, even if he turns out to be absolutely fine..
HTH!

She scored 162 and has a chance of Modarate PPD. What do I do now??

Thanks jmb1964 - It will be interesting to see how the assessment goes on Friday at our early intervention clinic - DS1 will probably be so well behaved, and I will look stupid LOL. Well DS1 will be 4yrs old in 15 days time - I am so glad we are acting on it now, and not later either!!! How long does it take for someone (so called experts!!) to say - yes your son has this.... or this.... etc... Or we need to wait till he is older, before we can truely tell you what is wrong with him?? Can anyone fill me in on that - Of course I am here in New Zealand -so you guys might do things different than us LOL Thanks everyone.

Hi all - I have not asked this question before - and today of all days it is really bothering me LOL If and when your dd or ds with 'ASD' hope thats the right abbreviation - Do they know that they have pushed, pulled 'attacked' their sibling, or other children. I was interested to know if they do, can you tell - is it because of the expressions on their faces, or do they scream to let you know, or do they just laugh (might not be the right word I am trying to use) BUT with my DS1- I am very sure he is aware of what he has done, and that he has caused pain to other children. He'll even saying, "crying mum"!!! We have encouraged, all the gentle touching, no touching etc....... BUT he just goes in 'for the kill' Today, all the way to an ENT specialist he was saying "No touching", No pushing' etc... He can say these words as clear as mud, but do you think he'll ever stop doing this - Well at the moment, we just can't seem to break this horrible upsetting behaviour!! Comments greatly appreciated!!

Bagpipes, no-one has answered so I'll have a go but there's lots of others with more experience of AS and siblings than me. My opinion is that your son is aware that he is getting attention for the behaviour. I doubt if he really understands that the other person is hurt or upset or knows how to care about that. Have you tried something like a star chart for NICE behaviour, e.g. "you've been kind to your sister while you were playing" etc. He won't necessarily understand the word "nice" but he'll learn to associate it with the type of behaviour you want and to understand that he is getting rewarded for THAT behaviour whether its with attention and/or something more tangible.
It does seem to be a fact though that 1st and 2nd siblings often fight. My sisters used to kick the s@#t out of each other! It turns out much later that the middle sister has got AS! She has never been able to negotiate and takes everything literally, gets upset and aggresive easily etc etc. Good luck, let us know how you are getting on and I hope someone else can give you a better or at least different answer.

My ds1 can be terribly violent with all his three siblings but at just 6 is beginning to realise it's not on. Until recently he would just knock over his two younger siblings with a kick or a swipe if they had the bad luck to be between him and whatever he was headed towards. If they got hold of one of his toys it was even worse, and the other big trigger would be if they were shouting or crying and he couldn't bear the noise. I honestly don't think he does it with any malice, he just fails to see the consequences of his actions. As he gets older he's understanding better ways of coping, and has got the hang of taking himself away (with his Argos catalogue to study ) if it all gets too much.
So whereas last year I thought he might have seriously injured someone by now, I'm actually a lot less bothered about the violence than I used to be.
HTH!

Thanks Davro and jmb1964 for your comments. Unfortunately DS1 hates, stamps and stickers of any kind - so a star chart probably wouldn't be of any help. Today, we have just had his early intervention (as he is Down Syndrome) and the Clinical Psychologist came out to visit him there. She was lovely to talk with and said, I was doing everything right - using the time out for 3 minutes, removing him when he displays harm etc.. to siblings, other children, or the out and out screaming he does. Since this was her first time meeting him - she was a wee bit blown away with his 'busyness' (doesn't look quite right does it LOL) She said, I must be running all day with him, plus looking after my 9month old too. I actually thought he had a wonderful, well behaved session - following most instructions etc.. and only tried to 'attack' one child there (makes a change!!!) She is coming back to the house next Friday, after our morning clinic to observe him here at home. I asked her do you think we have major concerns here - She felt DS1 certainly had sensory issues - I know her covered his ears several times during his individual music therapy - I know he dislikes bright lights especially. She said, we could go down that road of already labelling him ADHD - BUT she said, you would have to think about the medications etc... She said, one thing at a time - and sensory seems to be where we are starting. Does this sound familiar to anyone on this particular posting??? Can anyone enlighten me on Sensory issues - I mean, what sort of things do or can you do, to improve these areas??? He loves to touch all applicances, and people all day long LOL Hates certain noises, and screams often when taken to the park or new surroundings - many, many thanks for all your help so far - I had been eagerly awaiting your responses to my last message. Thanks

Bagpipes, sorry that the star chart is no good. My son also doesn't give a fig about stickers, stars etc! Maybe the sensory issues are a clue as to how you can "redirect" him as jmb mentions. We have been working on teaching my son how to be calm and relax when its not a crisis time. We've created "comfy corner" with a couple of bean bags (£10 each at Toys R Us) and some floaty fabric and we're going to work on smells, music/sounds and textures to add in. This is where he can go to be calm. We're also working on getting him to wear headphones as that is a good and appropriate way to cut yourself off from what is going on outside your head. I don't know a lot about sensory integraion training and I'm sure others do. There's a book called The OUt of Synch Child whcih I bought and, although my son has sensory issues, it isn't relevant to him at all! It might be worth a look as its highly recommended at the moment. There's also a home audio-intergration program called The Listening Programme available at advancedbrain Its quite expensive but cheaper than going to a series of sessions (and less stressful!). I got a couple of people to give me money for my son's birthday or Xmas and bought it with that.
I'm sure lots of others will have better advice for you but thought this might help a little. He's certainly got a committed and loving mum

I also recommend the out of synch child.

If you want practical hands on support and a program to help sensory issues then you could try BIBIC - www.bibic.org.uk/ A 3 day assessment and setting up of a home program (about half an hour a day) is £700 but most people use their bursary scheme. We went there- in June, we've been following the full programme for a little over a month and its already made a difference to sesnory issues. DS1 will now wear funny materials and hats for example (couldn't tolerate them before).

There's a thread on BIBIC under the special needs section.

my two boys never apologise to anyone if they accidently hurt any one ....nor if its on purpose (i mean why should they apologise to someone who they wanted to hurt???!!!)-every time they accidently do something that hurts another i get them to say 'sorry.i didn't mean to hurt you.it was an accident'- however, they are unable to say it the next time something else happens ,nor can they construct a similar phrase to fit a different situation.....as in true aspergers fashion they can only use what i've said if exactly that happens again!!
i've noticed bruises on one of their backs which look suspiciously like 'toys-dropped-on-you whilst-your-lining-up-toys-bruises'(my youngest is still at 4.5yrs throwing toys either aimlessly or deliberately to hurt -and he's not diagnosed with anything....but as i've said he's off to school for the first time on monday and i predict within a month we'll be referred to see someone or other!)
and my eldest for example will run past me in the kitchen and knock something out of my hand- and won't apologise because as far as he's concerned its my fault i dropped the item- as i was the one holding it!
and my middler will 'walk' or rather 'snake' his way to school/or in town by walking in a wiggly line all over the place with complete disregard to anyone else (truly in his own world)and no matter how many times i ask him to look up and stay near the wall or pushchair etc he carrys on regardless
i also remember a thread where someone said that their child would hurt a sibling on purpose in retaliation for something that was done to them- and feel no remorse because, as far as they were concerned it was the siblings fault for doing something in the first place that offended them!
my two younger onces also argue/slap eachother until i intervene- i tell them each time that 'someone has to stop'- but again this is never remembered the next time
the 2 oldest also argue over 'turns' on the tv- despite the fact that they both want to watch the same programme! as far as they are concerned its all to do with turns! i again have to intervene and say everytime' o.k. NEITHER of you is having this turn.... I AM!' I then change the channel a few times B4 putting it back to the one they were arguing over.... and walk out the room!

i 'cope' with all this all day every day and yet people keep telling me' boys will be boys' etc....!!!