I would sell my soul to the devil to have children that listened to me.

[emmatmg]

That's it really.

ATM we're trying the star chart method and if I'm honest it's a total waste of time.

DS1, who was 6 last week is such hard work. Having Ds2+3 togther is a doddle compared to DS1 alone. When they are all together the noise, fights, arguments, etc etc etc is ridiculous. What my neighbours must think of me and my attempts to quiet them I dread to think.

I hate to say but Ds1 is the main problem. He just does not listen until I'm screaming his name at him. Then he'll stop whatever it is but 2-3 minutes later he's doing it agian. It's almost like he just can't control himself. Ds2 does this too but not nearly as bad, I hate the thought of all 3 being like this eventually. It seems they(ds1 mainly but ds2 sometimes) have no respect for me and at 6 and almost 4 that horrifies me.

Dinner time is a mine field EVERY SINGLE NIGHT and I've tried ever way to tackle the problem. He'll swings on his chair, plays with his food, he eats painfully slowly (even DS3 finishes before him), Ughhh I could go on and on. I loathe dinner time and feel like I'm constantly wasting my time cooking nice dinners when every night it just ends up with a fight about "can I stop now?" "how much do I have to eat" "I don't like that" "I can't eat " It'd be easier feeding them crap every night.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I've run out of ideas.

Thedevil......I think you pay me.....and anyway I'm not selling any more

All is relatively calm so far.

He's doing some maths at the mo (through choice, it's not homework)while I cook dinner.

No fights etc yet.

damn

Just found your post and can so relate to it. Have 3 DSs and my DS1 is 9 and still exhibits all the attention seeking behaviour. He does thrive on 1 to 1 but unfortunately with 3 it is hard to find. He gets it every day but not all the time!! His big problem now is anger - he does not control himself very well and flies off at the slightest thing - oh how I look forward to him being a teenager!! reading "Siblings Without Rivalry" which has lots of good advice.

we've just instituted something at meal times which is working a treat on our 3.5 year old ds, who has consistently messed around, moaned/complained/whinged his way through meals... We set the kitchen timer (happens to be a ladybird) for 20 minutes, and although his concept of time is still a bit woolly, he can see how much it has to move around. We tell him that when the timer goes off, any food left on his plate will go straight in the bin. Amazingly this seems to bother him, so we now have a fantastically well behaved boy who gets on and eats his food with no bother! Every now and then he checks the timer, but we don't mention it again - it takes away the stress from the parents as it's almost not our responsibilty any more - it's the timer's.

Tons of praise of course once he's finished within the time frame..!

Worth a go?

Other than that, just huge amounts of sympathy/empathy..!

i have three - and its a nightmare - my eldest sounds exactly like this evennow - only itsnot a constant thing - and i quite like him as a person rather than the compulsary love you feel as a mum IYKWIM?!

its about attention. he wants it off you and your not giving it him. if he is being good and quiet - how often do yousay - wow your good well done for behaving so well? its something we just dont do - if they are being quiet we think - thank fcuk fer that and leave them to it. whereas they see it like this... if i do something naughty mummy notices ME instead of those other two.

i have always let my oldest stay up later thant he twins - about an hour later. i labled it "our time" and that was the time we sat and watched a vid together - or on friday we waited til the twins went to bed and had a pizza which made him feel special becuase he thought it was naughty of me not to include them (the reality was they were too young really)

now that time could be part of the sanctioning process.

re: eating - my youngest says exactly the same things that you mentioned - and it did drive me a little nuts. however i have always been of the opinion that Kids unless they have a medical condition will not go hungry. they just wont. so if youngest looks at pasta on his plate, shoves it round a little bit, makes piles ont he side of his plate then says "i dont want anymore" i say fine - and refused to get stressed about it - becuase he will not get anything else to eat that evening and will have 3 instead of 2 weetabix the next morning!

we eat at the table and we have a rule that event hough you are finished you cannot leave the table becuase its rude. as well as good manners this stops my daughter from shovelling all her food into her big gob at onet ime so she can get back to her puter or friends. however....this rule doesn't apply to my youngest, so if he finishes first - he can wash his plate and go do whatever he wants to do as an incentive to eat up.

kids eh? if we only knew then...

Reading all this has made me feel so so much better. My eldest ds is 6 and you have all been describing him in great detail in this thread. I have been tearing my hair out at his inability to be quiet, sit still and not attention seek. He has huge hissy fits when things don't go his own way. My three year old son and 1 year old daughter just don't get a look in as all our time is spent trying to deal with the eldest hyper child. My eldest is also finding it hard at school as he is so "in your face" and always pestering people and generally being quite annoying. Whilst I don't have any answers I'm hugely reassured to know that it is a common problem.

A friend suggested the usual ignore all the bad behaviour and praise praise praise when he is being quite and loving and sweet and I do think that is working. I'm also trying really really hard not to shout and again I think I'm seeing a bit of an improvement.

My new thing is to take them all out to the park or for a scooter ride or something after supper to completely exhaust him before bed to burn off some of the nervous energy. We'll wait and see.

Mainly I just wanted to say to all of you parents of three how much I relate to you all. My great worry is that my Mother still doesn't really like my brother who is the eldest of three and is now 41 and I am so fearful that history will repeat itselg.

sorry to disappoint you, but it aint ever gonna happen - just a waste of a decent soul.

Whatever age your kids are, however old they become - you will still and always be their mum, so therefore you speak utter, utter gobbledigook regardless of how much knowledge, skills and experience you have or gain over the years. Children simply learn to look as if they are listening and then go off and do exactly what they want to anyway.

I am also mother of three boys the oldest being 5. I know this is of no help to others but I am so glad other mums have the same problem as me. We are using a star chart at the moment,the reward being elder son and I going to see Star Wars! I am trying hard not to shout and am giving lots of praise.I think I shall try to get them out more in the evenings. I have shied away from that as something always goes wrong with one or more of them and I hate the embarrassement of tantrums and telling off in public. Thanks for starting this thread, mothers of 3!

Oooo, glad to see this one is still going.

We're using stickers charts for dinner only atm as I think we've got sooooo far to go that doing it all at once would be impossible.

Ds2 had earned one every night. Ds1 has missed out on one so far.

TBH, he(ds1) just doesn't seem that fussed about it. I/we say how pleased we are when they eat/sit/behave well at the table but it just seems to go in one ear and out the other. I've been really making a song and dance about it too so that he realises the importance of it.

Any suggestion on how to make it better would be great.

Custy, I like your staying up abit later thing, DS1 would LOVE that (they all go to bed at the same time) so I might try that for his reward.

I've got them both a BIG bar of Mint Aero each as a reward that they'll get at the end of the week, but do I show them I've got it already or wait until the week is over.

If i show them they'll go on and on and on and on about it.

Uuugghhhhh. questions questions questions.

just like to add that were doing the 5p in the jar regime which seems to be working remarkably well and im wondering when the novelty will wear off but weve done it for the last month and when the jar is full( i help secretly sometimes so theyve got something worth spending) we all go to the local £1 shop or local toy/newsagent shop and they can choose whatever they want as long as theyve got the money to afford it and they absolutely love this adventure and then the nice lady in the shop helps them count it out , they get their own bag and receipt and boy ,their faces are a joy..im absolutely amazed at how well my sons behaviour has come on in leaps and bounds( hes 5 1/2) get this .he actually makes MY bed in the morning off his own bat, inc the throw placed just right and the cushions piles neatly and in place, they put their own clothes in linen basket, coats, shoes etc in coat cupboard and are soooo helpful, my house has never been so clean..my son has taken on the job of taking out the rubbish and sorting out the recycling ..im not joking .i feel since the 5p s have come into force i have a new child who is just so adorable and helpful, i`m so proud of him.hope it works as well as me/ by the way he gets money taken away if doesnt listen ..but make sure you sit down and explain the rules beforehand so they know what to expect as in the middle of a tantrum will not work..

My DS1 is 5.2 and in the last couple of weeks has started to get ultra-stroppy. he often ignores what i say to him until i yell at him (unless it's do you want more chocolate), he whinges at the meal table unless it's spag bol, and quite often he is a total pain in the bum. However he usually realises a couple of hours later that he's been naughty and draws me a picture of me with his name on to stick on the fridge

A friend of mine is currently having horrendous problems with her DD1 (same age as my DS) From the sound of it she is being a right little madam. The thing is I think we can always see how we would sort out other people's kids (I certainly have ideas about her daughter!) but never our own. However she (my friend) admitted yesterday she ever felt that she bonded with her DD1 and feels as though DD1 realises this and is punishing her!!!!

I mean never felt she bonded....

It made me laugh when I read about your flowerbed experience because my ds2 who is 6 is just like this. You always know when he's appeared on the scene. He is also a little angel at school - my DH went to his last parents' evening and said he got the definite impression that his teacher would like to adopt him.

We have tried star charts/pasta etc, but found these to be exhausting to put into practice - he would argue about every aspect of it and I found the rewards caused some resentment with my elder children.

What I do now is remove him from the scene of the crime at once if he is naughty. I don't warn him because if he is in this disruptive mood he will always go on to repeat or escalate his behaviour. I try (!) to keep very calm and pleasant and just say something like, "You know that's not how you behave. You can't be with us if you behave like that." I then put him in his room or wherever and leave him for a bit - then go and ask him if he wants to come down and play nicely. I think they know they are being naughty - otherwise they would not behave at school. It is purely attention seeking.

We also try really hard to do things with him on his own every day - taking penalties, football quizzes, maths(! his favourite thing after football). I think it's really important to find something you can do with him which you enjoy as well. With my eldest two it was easy because they are very arty and we would spend hours doing arty stuff, but ds 2 is completely different and I do wonder if part of the problem is that when he was little I did not do enough of the things he wanted to do with him but tried to treat him like his siblings. I have now discovered that I actually quite enjoy practising football skills in the garden. I wouldn't make this a reward - just try to find time to do something he enjoys every day - only about 10-15 minutes. I think of it as time spent building a relationship with him and ensuring that he gets the attention he needs. I wouldn't worry if you're not an overtly cuddly person - we are all different and you can find other ways to express your love. He always gets at least 2 chapters of a book a night before bed and a big cuddle before he goes to sleep. I can't say he is perfect but he is better.

I take the same approach with dinner now - if he messes about I put him in the hall. I don't worry if he doesn't eat, either - he's not that interested in food, and can always have a bit of bread later if he's starving.

I think whatever you decide to do you must be consistent - it has to be something you can continue and that is simple.

My MIL's neighbour is a child psychologist and I'm always asking her for advice. Her stance on rewards etc is that you reward on an ad-hoc basis. Ie when you're out shopping one day say to the child "I'm going to buy you a treat as you were such a good boy/girl on xxx day by doing xxx." It makes them realise that good behaviour can have an affect even days after the event.

We have a rewards box. If we're out somewhere and DD sees something she wants between £1-£5, sometimes we'll let her have it for her rewards box. If she does something well/ without having to be asked more than twice etc, we produce her box and let her choose a reward. The advantage of this is that she can see the other rewards in the box and is motivated to continue with good behaviour to get the other things.

We find it works for us anyway.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

I GIVE UP.

No better then Emmatmg? Sorry to hear it.

All I asked was for him to put his PJ's on. I think I asked about 7 times. Shouting it for the whole road to hear in the end.

I'd washed up, tidied up, and got Ds3 ready before he had. Even ds2 had got himself sorted in about 5 minutes.

The new "set up" is working really well with ds2, he's trying really hard. Ds1 still doesn't seem to be fussed.

emmatmg, it sounds to me like you need a major rethink on your approach. Clearly what works for ds2 and ds3 doesn't for ds1. I think you might find your life a lot easier if you try really hard to do a radical rethink on how to deal with him. Try to remember things that did work and do that instead. Maybe it's worth asking his teacher what she does.
I only have two children, but they are night and day in personality and need to be dealt with completely differently. My ds (4.5) sounds a lot like your ds1. I've found that telling him to get dressed is a complete waste of time. By the time he's walked into his bedroom, he's been distracted and completely forgotten what he's doing. Things that do work with him....a) Counting: I pick a number that's appropriate to the task and count it out. He races against me counting. (I originally did this with the idea that he would get punished if he didn't do something by the time I reached 3, but he never quite caught on to the punishment bit). b) Getting him to race against his sister: she's younger so I have to help her. c) Offering immediate, but unpredictable incentives: if you get dressed right away, I will take you to the park (I'll do this even if I was planning to take them to the park anyway), or if you don't get dressed right away, I will cancel the playdate we had scheduled today. d) Give specific suggestions of what to do, rather than telling him what not to do: "please go and get a trowel from the shed" rather than "don't take your brother's trowel." (I was floored at how well this worked the first time I did it, by accident, to my ds) e) At mealtime let him serve himself and don't let the younger siblings serve themselves: makes him feel important and teaches him about food amounts and the "value" of food. (My ds is already learning to limit the amount he puts on his plate).
By the way, none of the tricks that I've mentioned work at all on my dd. She however, even at 2, is more likely to just go and get dressed if I tell her to.
Hope all of this helps a little. It might really be worth going to see a family counselor just to get a few tricks and get things on the right track before you go crazy.

Sofia......that is a BRILLIANT idea for serving his own dinner.
He would love that and I'm positive he'd eat much much better after doing that.

Will try it this evening and report back with the results.

Have to warn you that it does get a bit messy, but well worth it for the results.