My 2.8 Yr Old Daughter Cannot Form A Sentence

[fimbles]

She saw a sppech therapist in November 2003 who said she was average and said she should be reviewed at 2.11 months. However last Monday she saw a Paediatric Consultant for a general review on her health and she said her speech was very behind.

She DOES find it difficult to talk in proper sentences ans says mainly 2/3 word sentences. If the sentences are longer, the real words are filled with babble/stammer. I brought this up with the speech therpaist and she said it was normal and they will grow out of it.

I am now left feeling VERY worried and wonder what will happen next. They said she will have to have some non-verbal tests first. Does anyone know from their experiences what this could entail and how does the speech therapy actually work?

I have spent alot of time talking to my dd,giving running commentary on what I do and her activities, infact giving her the words and sentence as advised to do so by HV's etc but she still caanot talk properly. When she is upset, she seems to forget everything - Is this normal?

Looking forward to any responses which I expect will be tomorrow am. Thanks in advance.

this current thread may be hellpful- it was for me as it mentions the videos I was thinking of- baby bumblebee- there's a link from that thread.

I would also say that the three word sentences thing can be a huge help. My initial feeling was that it would slow down his development, as we were 'missing' key words. Instead it helped to give him the 'confidence' that he could communicate (IYSWIM). Jimjams is right, kids like ds couldn't cope with long sentences and we are a very 'verbal' family! One of the probelms that I had with his is that it makes you sound like a very stern Mummy, with no flowery 'softening' of language, just to the point! But that was what he needed at that time.

Although he is on the young side, he is now on the normal distribultion (statisticaly speaking). Before, he found his inability to communicate properly very stressful and had behaviour problems as a result. Now he is a delight, a 'normal' happy little boy. He recognises all his letters and is starting to read. He also sings and takes part in all his lessons, including French....something that would have been utterly imposible 2 years ago.

Language isn't his stong suit , at least at the moment, but he is fine.

hi there again

I've used British Sign Language with my Dd, but that's because I have a background in that language so it was easy for me to teach her. I've also used Makaton in working situations. I prefer BSL but that's just personal preference.

I guess you have a choice, whether to try to make up your own signs with your Dd or try to learn something that's already out there. The advantages of using a system/language like BSL or Makaton is you don't have to think up the signs and also other people can understand your child.

In BSL there are a lot of signs that are very obvious to use as they represent what you are trying to say. eg elephant is miming the trunk of an elephant....so hopefully not too difficult to pick up.

I was going to suggest 'Something Special' as well. My Dd loves it and we do the signs and words together. It's also great to sing songs (Old McDonald is a favourite of mine as you can do the words/sign lots of times)

The good thing is you can start very simply ie just pointing to something and saying the word and doing the sign. I found with my Dd that I started with say 'bath', 'daddy', 'dog' etc etc then she was able to build on that by signing and saying 'bath' 'daddy', and in this way she built up sentences. She then went onto drop the signs when she mastered speaking the word and she knew I understood.

hope that helps

the leap frog radio is at Toys R us and all usual toy shops
it is pretty inexpensive - I've always hated those kind of toys but the grnadparents buy them and dd really responds, she knows best!
I am not sure where dd's speech is heading, putting words together seems a long way off, I am just learning to relax about it and let her open up her own way, she does enjoy the baby mozart and so forth dvds, she also does a little makaton, like for "where" and "all gone" and "finished"
although now she is happy enough to say a very spitty blowy "f" noise for finished, so it does help, albeit slowly.
I praise her for everything and she seems to be very good with colours and shapes and recognising numbers simple counting ie: her memory is very spot on, however without speech no one else would know this!
Golly I could go on about this all day.. and have ooops
sorry, but I sympathise with your frustration, esp when you oftenknow that they are capable but seemingly choose not to do it.

Hi all
Jimjams - Thanks again. You have alot of knowledge and made me think about this topic in a new light. Dd seems to understand what is being said even if I have been using a longer sentence. I am saying it very slowly and clearly.

She does not really answer yes or no to questions and as I mentioned earlier will only answer questions from books. I think she understands the concept of no as when she objects to something she will say no, no, no in succession.

I think she does have a problem with speech production now that u have brought it up, the words sound correct when said on their own sound, but when joined together are a little different - but not all the time. One thing I've noticed aswell is that when she asks for something she will also say my response at thesame time, eg alright then, ok, of course i will. What do u make of this?

I received a phone call this afternoon from a different NHS SALT who advised me our first appointment was on the 8/3. Let's see what happens.

HappyMerryBerries - what you've said makes alot of sence and I'm really glad yr ds is happy and progressing.

ReadHeadMum - The signing sounds very good and I suppose in a way I have already been doing it ie the elephant trunk movement, off the top of my head, can't imagine what the sign for a bath is though. Books are fantastic because the picture is there and I then can take her to see the real thing, if in the house. Also tv/videos are great for increasing vocab - the visual aid has been a very beneficial teaching tool for my dd .BTW thanks jimjams for the makaton video site.

piffle - so nice to hear from you and about yr dd, we sound similar and so do our dd's. My dd has amazed me with her colour knowlege too and her recognition of a few numbers. In the last 2 weeks she has memorised the alphabet thru singing. The written form is a whole new ball game though. I will hopefully relax once I've heard what the SALT has to say and pray her condition is NOT too serious.

Will be in touch.

Fimbles, what you say about saying the response at the same time is typical of my ds2 who is the subject of the thread that Jimjams linked to. My feeling is he does it as a prompt to me to say the expected answer. So he will say "I don't want to wear my shoes...alright you don't have to". It's like a hopeful push at me to say the desired response. I don't think it's just echoing what I've said before meaninglessly. Do you think that it could be similar with your dd?

That's great that you have a SALT assessment so soon. One tip (just from having been there) make sure they do assess her rather than just watch her- sometimes that can be appropriate (it was for ds2 when he had a recent appointment) but in your case it sounds as if some sort of assessment to try and pin down what is going on is necessary (and needed if the paed is ging to stick his oar in). In ds1's case NHS SALTS just never seemed to get round to assessing him and so we wasted lots of time (as I was pitching stuff at the wrong level and was then wondering why we weren't getting anywhere).

I don't have a lot oif knowledge by the way- just too much experience (hoping i don't get more with ds3- having a child that just spoke would be novel )

Repeating what is said to her (or part of what is said) is quite common when language (especially understanding) is delayed. It is a normal part of learning language as well- but is something you should mention to the SALT if she doesn't ask you about it. DS1 does this quite a lot but to an extreme- he uses phrases in context- but totally wrong. Eg "ill get the keys" when he wanted me to open the car boot (as that's what I had said each time he'd wanted it open before) and whenever we walk past a pelican crossing "don't press the button". he's now added his own bit to that so we get "bye bye don't press the button" when we drive past a pelican crossing. I don't really remember ds2 doing it at all, but although his speech was delayed his understanding and language wasn't. It's probably just a sign of some sort of language delay in your dd's case.

A question it would be worth asking the SALT is whether she thinks your dd is showing signs of a delay or a disorder. Delays really are very common and fixed very easily- and if she says its a delay I think you don't need to worry too much about the paeds comments.

Hope this helps!

Interesting Saker as ds1 does that as well. He'll be naughty- then start to say the sentence then dissolve into giggles when I give the expected answer.

yes, it's not normal speech what ds2 does, and I agree I don't remember my ds1 repeating speech in this way at any stage of development. But I do think ds2 does understand what it means - it is totally in context. He often asks me the questions he wants me to ask him so he might say "what you doing there ds2?" when I come into a room where he is playing. If I then take the prompt and say "what are you doing there", he will say "playing with the train track" or whatever he is doing. I think it may be a type of control thing to try and keep the conversation along lines he understands but I don't know. The only thing I am sure about is that it is definitely not normal speech

Hi Saker & Jimjams

Read yr comments and I feel al little worried. Do u think there might be something more to read into with my dd's speech development.

I know u can't really answer that question and I will have to wait for the SALT assessment. Should I be watching out for any other traits like this so I am ready for the SALT.

sorry to hijack - piffle have left message for you under health thread: Calling Piffle.

Sorryagain.

titchy

fimbles- not possible to say from an email. She's still pretty young- ds2 made a very rapid gain in speech and language between 2.6 and 3. You would never know now that he had ever had a problem. At 2 his speech would have been very similar to ds1's - but they had very different things going on.

Just jot down anything that occurs to you before seing the SALT, and glad you dont have to wait long.

Fimbles, sorry I didn't mean to worry you - I meant that what my ds2 does isn't normal but that is in conjunction with so many other things that aren't right about him. I doubt it would worry me in isolation. I really don't know if your daughter has a problem or not. The only thing I could advise is what you're doing which is to get a speech therapist assess her.

Out of interest what are her motor skills like - things like running, climbing stairs, undressing etc?

yes and I should just add- your dd sounds nothing like ds1 so i wasn't thinking that.

Hi there again

Running, jumping & climbing are fine. She didn't climb until late though as we live in a flat so she never had the opportunity to learn or crawl up them first. She can take her clothes off but cannot put them on yet, but is interested to learn. She can draw a circle but just keeps on going over the already drawn circle. I assume this wil take a little longer to grasp.

Thanks again and I will let u know how I get on with the SALT. Wishing you both the best too.

The clothes and drawing stuff sounds normal for her age to me. Getting dressed is much harder than getting undressed. when ds1 was in a mainsream reception class the majority of children needed help getting their coats on.

Yes that sounds really normal. My ds2 has lots of problems with all those things and he is older than your dd. I think some of his language problems are related to his planning and organisational skills but it doesn't sound like your dd has any problems with that. Good luck with the appointment.

hi again

just to get back to you on the signing thing.....

if you go to \link{ www,forestbooks.com\this} there are resources like books and videos etc on signing with babies, you might find this useful

good luck!

I'm obviously technically inept ;)

www.forestbooks.com is the site

I'm obviously technically inept ;)

www.forestbooks.com is the site

Hi everyone, thought I'd keep you updated:-

Had our appointment this morning and I asked the SALT directly after her assessment of DD whether she thought it was a speech delay or disorder (I heard jimjams words in my ear) She said it was a speech delay. So I was quite relieved about that in one respect.

We are going next week for the SALT to do some non verbal tests on dd. She said she will put some toys on the table and sit in front of dd and watch how she plays with them, basically checking her developmental play. Has anyone experienced this type of testing before?

She also said that it was going to take a long time for dd to speak correctly which I thought was a little disheartening as my own gp said it can be corrected rather quickly.

My dd has also started her terrible two phase in the last 10 days or so which I don't think is going to help the situation.

Look forward to any comments.

Ah sounds like it went well Glad you're getting some input.

I've been in situations where they've tried to test ds1's playskills but he's been completely non-cooperative (too busy examining the sink- why do they always put sinks in thouse rooms???). He has been observed at nursery settngs. They're looking for the stage of pretend play as it develops in different stages. DS1 for example will pretend to iron with toy irons, or will out little people down a slide. DS2 is further on though- he will pretend a box is a boat, or a stick a rocket iyswim.

Hi jimjams

Thanks for the response and all yr input on this thread. You have been very helpful.

Take care.

xx