Out of interest, how many of your "just" 4 year olds can write?

[sandyballs]

Dropped my DDs (who are in 4 in two weeks) off at the in-laws this morning and MIL started on her favourite topic - her friend's grand-daughter (smae age) who can write her name and several other things very clearly. As I was leaving I could hear her saying to my DDs, "now we have to spend the morning practising your writing so you can be as good as xxxx". It does pee me off that she puts this pressure on them, and compares them. I've told MIL that they will do it in their own time and to back off a bit but I know she thinks I'm not encouraging them enough or spending enough time practising with them. They starts school in September so they'll have enough of that then, surely they should be having fun now!

BTW they can write their names, although some letters are often upside down or it reads from right to left!

ds1 was four in december and can write a few letters, as far as I see it they all develop in different ways at different speeds.

DS was 4 last saturday

he can write his name (3 letters) .. gets the first letter the wrong way round a lot of the time

he can recognise some other letters

he's been going to pre-school since he was 3 and 3 months but they don't push writing

I am a firm believer that by the time they are 7 or 8 children are at the same level and writing and reading earlier really makes no difference at all (it is so not a sign of intelligence IMHO)

you'll never convince grandmas of that though

I could write my name at 3.5. dd is 27 months and recognises the letters A,D,L,M,N,O,R,S and W but she can't write yet (understandably grin)]

Personally, I would tell your MIL not to push your dd and let her develop at her own pace.

my ds2, who is 3.5, can write his name and type it on the computer too - proud mummy moment .

BUT his name is only 3 letters.

AND I didn't teach him - he learnt it at nursery

DD1 is 4 in March and can write all of the alphabet and words if you spell them to her - some back to front etc. She has always pretended to write, and has just learnt it all through asking. HOWEVER, she sees a SALT as her speech is very poor, probably verbal dyspraxia, so it is a relief to me that there is an understanding of phonetics, IYSWIM

I simply can't remember whether mine could or not. But she can now. So, if she could have done it would prove what?

bundle - I think your 2nd daughter has the same name as mine

my ds1 (aged 4yrs 5mths) can write his own name, mum, dad and his brothers name, he has lots of writing practise at nursery, and i am proud that he can write very well.
he cant read at all though and will make up stories himself from the pictures in the book.

i dont think it makes any difference at all at his age, some children go to nursery ( he has since a baby) and others stay at home with a parent- but as twiglett says- by 7/8 all children are at school and should be at the same level.

i think your MIL is being a bit OTT about it, children learn different things at different times- whats the rush?

Ds can scrawl the first three letters of his name but not in a line, they kind of wobble all over the page. He is 4.4. He had a Christmas card from a girl in his class who is a month younger than him and she'd written her 7 letter name perfectly at the bottom.
I did ask one of his teachers if his writing was normal, and she said that it was, and that most children can't write all their name by the time they start school at 5. So if your dds are writing even an approximation of their names at this age they're doing very well!
Anyway, drawing is much more fun.

My dd is 4 (5 in May) and is just starting to get interested in writing. She has been in reception part-time since September and they are just introducing writing now. Before that (say, up till Christmas) she could write an abbreviated version of her name (which is what she is known as most of the time - her full name + surname has 20 letters, so not a hope!) and approximate an x for a kiss, but that's all. She has been writing (sort of) the first letter of her name since about 2.5, but only that one letter. DD2 is about to be 3 and is starting to think about doing the first letter of her name. Her name starts with E, so she does the down-stroke, and then about 20 lines going across it! Looks a bit like a comb, or a mad hairy caterpillar! Sounds like your dds are doing fine, Sandyballs! Try not to let your MIL rile you (easier said than done, I know).

I am continuously surprised when I see your comments on here Twiglett about how "by the time they are 7 or 8 children are at the same level".

Do you actually know any 7 or 8 yr old children?! The breadth of ability in yr3 and 4 is phenomenal, certainly much wider than the differences in reception or yr1

I agree completely that very early reading and writing is not necessarily significant. And some of the 'brightest' children in yr3 were actually struggling in the early years.

But to imply that everything evens out completely in the next couple of years is incorrect.

Ds1 couldn't even hold a pencil properly when he started school just after his 4th birthday. He could type it but obviously it's not the same thing. Now at 4.5yrs he can write his name but the children in his class are all at different stages. Some don't yet recognise the letters of the alphabet but others can write. Your MIL is obviously just using this as a "My grandchild's better than your grandchild" issue IMHO.

there was a bbc programme a few years ago that showed a school in sweden (i think) where they don't teach reading or writing till age 6/7....and that they spend the 'early years' doing 'play related' stuff to build the skills needed to read and write...from what i remember generally they picked up the tasks far quicker- as they were mature enough...like CT says some 4 year olds cannot hold a pencil properly....and suddenly at age 5/6 they don't 'play with toys' in class....curriculam this ...curriculam that.....and this programme summarised that by 11....all were at the level 'assumed as normal' for 11 yr olds.

i agree that at 7/8 there is still a huge variable.... my 5 yr old writes like my 8 year old...which is the true description....?my 5 year old writes like an 8 year old'...or my 8 year old writes like a 5 yr old????

DD is 4 in a few days, and she can write a decipherable (is that a word?) version of her first and last name. I'm proud of her, but haven't pushed it.....and it should be noted that both names combined are less than 10 letters.

We visited one of her friends today. Somehow the conversation got around to "what happens when you're naughty". DD's friend (who is 4.4) told us she is sent to her room for not listening, acting wild, and if she writes her letters wrong ! This child is quite clever, and has a very pushy mum, who is obviously determined that her child will do well. The mum wasn't around when the child told us that. I honestly was so shocked that I didn't know what to say.

that is sooooo sad! I get cross with my son if he writes on the sofa!!! (would she be 'proud' if hers did that ....but with perfectly formed joined up writing!!!!!)

Ds is 6 in March and writes his name but still does he letters "wrong" - ie he starts and ends in the "wrong" spot. But it is legible...

I think it's rubbish expecting a 4yo to write their name. Kids are all different and develop skills at different rates. I'm sure there are things your dd's can do great that mil's friend's granddaughter is cr@p at.

Let's face it, they all get there in the end, don't they! (Well with the odd exception.) Does it really matter when and how fast? Pressuring them just gives them a negative feeling about it.

Comparison comshmarison I say. :-P

dd1 age 4 can write nicely but still can't wipe her bum. I know which I'd prefer her to be able to do!

fennewl, my ds still wants to do poo in a nappy, although recently has managed some in the toilet...
he can type his name but that's all....

My dd is 4.5 now and is just starting to write her name. She gets it about half right. I don't see the point in rushing children, they will do it sooner or later. my dd enjoys 'writing' and I want to encourage this rather than pressurize her to get it right and take the fun out of it. I'm sure it will be better in the long run.

My DS was 5 in september and is the oldest in his year [reception] At nursery, no attempt at all was made to teach any writing and when i tried he was not interested! He has not ever really enjoyed drawing either. He has now started to enjoy drawing and writing alot more and can write most letters but insists that all his name should be written in capital letters! His name only has 3 letters and was still struggling before christmas but after writing god knows how many christmas cards it was perfect! All i hear about when i visit my nan is how good at everything my cousins DS is, it drives me up the wall! I do agree though, like most of you that even though my DS was particularly bad at writing, you can't rush them and the more you try you will just make them even more worried about it all!

Forgive me as I have not read this thread in full but I am settling my dd into nursery at the moment, she is one year old and loving it there (I am surprised but thats another story) but another parent brought his 1 and a half year old daughter in for an experienceday and she can write her name!!!!!! I did not witness this but one of the nursery nurses came down to the parent room to check the spelling of the childs name so that she was indeed writing it correctly!!! I had a good chat with the father while our children spent time in nursery. Though his daughter was upstairs with the 2-3 year olds and not in my daughters room for the 1-2 year olds. Not sure why this was but regardless it has now dawned on me how incredible it must be for such a young child to write her name - even if I am mistaken with her age and she is maybe 2 or even 3 - thats very young isn't it?

Sandyballs - not read other posts but my ds1 is 4 at end of March. He can write his name perfectly - 'TOM' but struggles more with 'Thomas' though he can almost do it. That's it though - he can't write anything else though he recognises lots of letters and has taken to pointing out letters anywhere he sees them - supermarket, tram, road signs - and says 'I've got that letter in my name' or 'that's a kicking k for Katie' (friend).

I don't really do any writing with him as he's not that bothered - I get him to sign his name in birthday cards and that's it.

He does it at his pre-school though where he goes 5 mornings a week and I think that's more than enough.

I'm with you - I think there is far too much pressure on little people these days and childhoood is for fun imo. He starts school in September and there is plenty of time from there on in for learning to write and add up!!

Don't forget, they are learning all the time whether you sit down and 'teach' them or not!

Haven't read all the threads but ds now 5 could write his name and that was it. He could identify all the letters and numbers but could only write his name. Now he has been in reception since September and can write many more words and all small letters of the alphabet and he is trying capitals now and I am so shocked by how much he has picked up his reading skills. When he was at nursery last year he hated me getting the pens out to practice writing it was like I was forcing him to do it now he enjoys practising since being at school. All the children start school at different levels but they all have to work at the same pace when they join school. So don't threat too much she will do it eventually especially once she starts school.

Is she a teacher - currently or retired? Your dds' actual teachers will be cursing her if she attempts to teach them "her" way if it is not used by the school...agree with others, this is daft and very annoying of her.

And I am a firm believer in letting them play and not presurising too much. If he moaned when I got the pens out I would just put them away. To be honest I help him more now he is at school than I ever did at nursey. And when they first start school in reception they learn through play and all end up at the same level anyway.