How do i get them to behave ??? This can't go on

[nutcracker]

I am still having big probs with Dd2 (4) and Ds (19mths) is now getting just as bad, as i feared.

I just cannot seem to get it through to Dd2 that her behaviour isn't acceptable.
When i tell people about it they either think i'm making it up as she looks like butter wouldn't melt or that i'm making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Finally her nursery teacher witnessed one of her milder tantrums at the school carnival yesterday.
Dd2 didn't know her teacher was watching her and when i took her to nursery this morning the teacher told me she'd seen her and admitted that she thought i must of been exagerating when i said she was a nightmare at home.

I tried a star chart but she soon got fed up of that. What do i do next ????

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I do give her positve reinforcement and it does sometimes work, but depends on what the tantrum isd about.

I do try really hard to ignore her tantrums but again it depends on what it's about.

Counting backwards from 5 tends to work quite well if it's only a mild tantrum.

Twinkie - She goes to bed at 7.30 usually asleep by 8.30 at the latest and she gets up at 7.
Isn't that enough ??? If she had a nap in the day she would be a nightmare at bed time.
Blossomhill - I will try to find out if there are any Webster Starton groups around here. I did have a good look for anything like that but drew a blank.

NC - Ask your Hv as it was mine that told me about it. I am sure this must be available countrywide and they provide a creche which is handy!!!

It sounds like enough sleep, but maybe she needs even more. Do you have to wake her in the am or does she wake up cheerful and refreshed?
I know it makes a vast difference to my ds. Sorry it's tough atm.

Hi mummys. I'm delphine, mum of a wonderful 12 months old boy. I need a little bit of help because for two weeks now my quiet baby seems to turn his agressivity towards me. Only towards me, when I say "no" about things, he just put all his nerves together, his face is shaking and his two little fists in front of him are too. He doesn't do that with his dad or other people. The fact is that I bring him up alone at home, maybe he starts to be bored about me! Before being pregant, i was full of principles and would have never admitted that but now...I don't want to act with too much "psychology" because I don't want my boy to feel free to behave like that, I think I have to do something about it now but I just don't know how to react. People tell me I cuddle him too much, that's why, but it's difficult to imagine this is the source of the problem. Have you already heard about that? Thank you for help!

Hi delf, welcome to mumsnet. IMHO I don't think you can cuddle too much. Sorry can't post much right now, thought I'd bump this up.

I think the praise when good or normal and ignore when naughty approach would appear to work - although easier said than done.

I remember my HV saying to me, that any attention is attention in a childs mind, good or bad. If they are being naughty, by telling them off, you are focused on them.

I didn't read too much into this, but yesterday my dd (6) was foul to me, I had taken her TV away from her, because she was staying up to late, when she realised I had done this (done it in middle of night) you charged downstairs and stamped on my foot with her shoes on (it hurt), but instead of getting angry and shouting, I turned to her very calmly and said go away and get to your room before I get cross, with this she turned and walked upstairs and got herself ready for school. On the way to school we hardly spoke (but still everything was calm) she walked nicely with me instead of running off, before reaching school I turned to her and said, please take this time away from me and reflect on your bad behaviour today and consider whether you think you should apologise when you come home.

She gave me a kiss in the playground (she never does this, usually she just runs off) and waved goodbye to me. When I picked her up, she had written a apology letter to me and last night she was brilliant, went to bed early, cleared up her room, this morning made her bed, got herself dressed before coming downstairs etc etc. I praised her to the hilt saying how fantastic she was and thanking her for her help, she has gone to school a different child today and I am a happy mummy too. I hope it lasts

Another vote of support for "How to talk so thatchildren listen etc...." - this book is writtenonthe principles suggested by Aloha and Mammya and I would suggest it for anyone who wnats to adopt that strategy.
I have always done if fairy naturally to a certain extent but DD2 was going through a rather "difficult" stage when I took the time to read this book - a complete changed child!!.
Re tantrums: it does take some time to apply the principles to avoid a tantrum but considerably less time than a tantrum takes and far far less emotive for everyone!

I am reading it at the mo sonnet

it swuite hard to ingesta llt he stuff, especially if you read it in bed!!

I have to re read echa chapter

" quite hard to ingest"!

Hi everyone. My friend told me of an incident where her dd threw a god almighty tantrum in the supermarket one day, screaming, kicking, you name it. She was used to this and I think may have perhaps 'flipped' because she calmly took out a home made sign from her handbag and placed it beside the child and walked away. The sign read 'Tantrum in Progress'.

Haven't read it yet so have no idea if it is of any help at all(!!!), but there is an article in the Aug edition of Junior mag on star charts and the pros and cons. May be worth a look....or watch this space, I'll read it and get back to you.

I think i may get that book Coddy.

So far I have tried Toddler Taming, Parenting the strong willed child, and another one i can't think of.

TBH i found them all hard going and most of the stuff irrelevant.

Will go have a look for that one now.

Tinkerbell - Thanks i will make sure i buy it.

Nutty - my 3.5 yr old dd2 seems have calmed down a lot since I put the following into practice. Not sure if it's in the books, just discovered it myself. What we do (dh and me) is to say that if she does not do something within 10 seconds (or 3 dependant on the naughtiness) then she will get a smack on the hand . We then count to 10 out-loud and by the time it gets to 10 she has done as she is told. In the 3 months that we have been doing this (around 5 times a day!) we have had to smack her hand twice (very lightly).
She did have her first tantrum, in a very long time, this morning over wearing trousers but, as others have suggested, I diverted her attention and no more screaming child laying on the floor.

I had tried the explanation to her of Mummy being sad when she had a tantrum (all the time - constant winger) but she really did not get the grasp of this. The counting/threaten smack really seems to work and believe you me I would have tried anything. Now, she likes to be a "good girl" and not a "naughty girl" and gets really upset when I call her "naughty" now. I have to apologise to her, and in the same breath, she will apologise to me!

I really do have a lovely dd2 now who I enjoy and love immensely.

Am visiting the UK in the next couple of weeks can you tell me where to buy the book 'How to talk so children will listen....' is it available from most book shops? My 3 yr old ds is having trantrums al the time, but it just seems to be me he is having them for, he's fine at nursery and fine with dh when he collects him but as soon as I get home from work he starts, sometimes just whinging. I feel like he is punishing me for going to work and leaving him he is normally a happy funny little boy who loves to make us laugh and he gives us lots of kisses and cuddles, I hope this is just a stage he is going through!!

Nutty another really good, simple idea is to have a happy/sad face. You can make your own or print them from microsoft word. Put them, say on the kitchen fridge where they are visable. When dd or ds does something they shouldn't then turn it round to the sad face and tell them what you have done and why they are on the sad face. It has worked really well in my house to the point where the other day I sent dd to her room for doing something quite naughty and she was calling out "get the sad face" because she knew she had done wrong.
I also had dd's school meeting and they were saying how well she had been doing and that she is never on the sad face anymore.
I know it's a simple idea but does re-inforce positive behaviour. Good luck

Nutcracker, I really feel for you - we have had similar problems with our kids. The thing that helped us was a book called "How to be a better parent" by Cassandra Jardine. The book led us to some work at the place the book's ideas are based around, and that experience has changed the way we are with our kids. Life at home is calmer and happier. A key tenet of the ideas is "descriptive praise" - continuously feeding back to kids what they're doing right... "you've put your coat on all by yourself...I didn't have to help you at all".....You haven't annoyed the baby at all this morning - and what peaceful time we've had". The idea is that you're re-inforcing the behaviour you want. there's lots of other really useful stuff in the book, too. It's very, very practical. I can't recommend it highly enough. The "supernanny" on TV was extremely similar in her approach. these are not quick fixes, but look ahead to getting the teenagers and adults you want to raise! (£8.99 Vermillion, all good book shops and Amazon) Good luck.

When I said they're not quick fixes I meant that although the ideas work very quickly, they are focused on a long term objective, too!

Nutcracker, here's hoping your dd's tantrums is just a phase, I find they do come and go. Mine have never had tantrums in the supermarket, thank god, but reading this thread reminded me...
a year or so ago when my 10 yr old and 8yr old got themselves into a fight... they were starting to pinch andpull each other's hair. I was begging them to stop... when my youngest 6 yrs old, calmly went away and came back with the camera! the flash going off stopped them in their tracks and the suggestion that we show the picture to their school friends was even better.

Thanks again for all the advice. I'm off to look on Amazon now for the books.

That one sounds good Lowri i will check it out.

Nutty, do you like me laugh when you are advised to "ignore the bad behaviour" ? My 3yo dd is a hysterical screaming banshee when she gets going. It is usually over me asking her to do something she does not want to do but which must be done in order for us to progress with our day - like getting her clothes on.

I often have to physically cram her into her clothes and she will howl uncontrollably for about 15 mins (which I ignore of course!) But she has been like this since a baby - I started a thread three years ago about my wriggling baby girl.
So I have been ignoring the screams for three years and it makes not a jot of a difference. If anything she is geting worse.

dolally, I love your six year old's style. What a totally fantastic idea. I have lots of throw away cameras lying around, and even if the film is all used up, the flash still goes. Who;s to know that there is no film? reminds me of speed cameras really.

If I ever start home behaviour books again, I could use your son's idea to illustrate bad times (and good times) with photos...