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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

I just smacked dd :(

47 replies

Lmccrean · 10/03/2007 19:41

She has been a complete cow today. Im sooooo cross and Im sitting here in tears because I dont know how to handle this and Im cross because I hit her.

She has become increasingly messy, and lies about tidying up. We made a rules chart up today, with her stating what she should do (only one toy out at a time etc - I had no input, but all her rules were perfect) has she kept to any of them? NO. 2 days ago, I removed most of her toys from her room stating that she could have them back when she could prove that she could look after the toys I had left out...debating on wether to walk in there and empty the bookcase except for 2 or 3 books and the toy box except her favoiurite jigsaw...is this too harsh? Shes 4 btw

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

LazyLine · 11/03/2007 16:04

I think that your main error seems to be setting general standards so high that there is no way she can achieve them and as such feels there is no point attempting any of them. Relax a little. One toy out at a time is ridiculous IMO, but teaching her to tidy up is a good idea but you need to do it right.

She tidied at 18 months because she could, that's the only reason they tidy at that age, because it's another thing that they have learned to do.

FrannyandZooey · 11/03/2007 16:09

If she has not stuck to any of the rules it sounds as if she is not capable of doing so

being able to devise rules that you approve of does not make a child mature enough to follow them through

why only one toy out at a time? This sounds bizarrely controlling to me. Yes taking all her things away is too harsh - what would it achieve?

colditz · 11/03/2007 16:16

Agree F&Z

I can write down a perfectly balanced diet, but when it comes to actually sticking to it...

Seriously, if we were punished every time we didn't tidy up, or broke a very trivial rule, wouldn't life be miserable?

DimpledThighs · 11/03/2007 16:19

I was going to be all sympathetic but smacking a child of 4 because she is not keeping to tidy up rules and pissing you off is too much.

Chill out, organise her rooma nd stuff a bit so she can tip loads of books out (Put them in a big plastic box or something) and relax your standards a little.

FrannyandZooey · 11/03/2007 16:22

Lies at this age are also a sign of child not being able to cope with unreasonable expectations placed upon them IMO

oh dear I am being very harsh about this Sorry LMC your OP doesn't show any empathy or concern for your dd at all and it is making me feel cross with you. I apologise for not being ore constructive, as I know what it is like to feel the red mist and get so infuriated with them

"All her rules were perfect"

this is heartbreaking to me - she is trying very hard to please you, but she can't stop herself from being a 4 year old who is sometimes messy and unreliable.

Greensleeves · 11/03/2007 16:37

I agree with those who have said that you need to adjust the set-up of her room/storage of her toys and books/your expectations of her. I honestly think that at four she CAN'T stick to these rules. I have a four year old too, and he drives me wild sometimes - in fact last week I found myself threatening to put any toys still on the floor after 20 minutes into a binbag although I did it fairly lightheartedly and they just laughed at me. It wasn't the mess, so much as the rolling about on the floor whinging and carping and making smart remarks and whining "I don't know how to tidy up"

'One toy at a time' is setting both of you up to fail though IMO. I would relax that if I were you, try and let her have a bit more freedom to make a bit of a mess when she is playing (what looks like mess to us can be just the way they like it!) but try and institute a fairly strict regular routine of both of you tidying it away together at the end of a session of playtime, or before the next meal or whatever.

I feel very sympathetic about the smack, I haven't done that yet but I do know how angry my 4yo can make me - totally disproportionately and quite suddenly - and I would be upset if it happened too. I would just have a little chat to her tomorrow, apologise, and remind her that grown-ups make mistakes and do silly things sometimes too.

FrannyandZooey · 11/03/2007 16:40

batters · 11/03/2007 16:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

strongteabag · 11/03/2007 16:57

Sorry, I think you are being a bit harsh. Perhaps more positive discipline? Though I do understand and I would be cross if she was tipping things over the floor for the sake of it. I agree that you should 'help' her tidy up. In my experience, kids are more likely to help you with jobs if you lead by example and 'help them'.

Enid · 11/03/2007 17:00

you have a 4 year old child - they are messy

get over yourself!

Otherwise what foxinsocks said

Enid · 11/03/2007 17:03

we had a lovely time yesterday tidying.

dd1, dd2 (aided and abetted by dd3) and I spent 2 hours tidying all the bits and pieces from around the house, all the playmobil bits, all the polly pocket bits, put everything back in its place/in boxes/in the bin (I did this bit secretly ). I was in good mummy mode so praised them to the skies. When we had finished we had snacks in front of a dvd. It was nice.

DimpledThighs · 11/03/2007 17:13

wish I had said what greeny said - that is what I meant even though post was more aggressive.

Enid · 11/03/2007 17:22

yes you could do worse than implement greenys post lmccrean

deepinlaundry · 11/03/2007 17:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TinyGang · 11/03/2007 17:32

Oh dear, the trouble with 4/5 yr olds is that they just are rather messy and need more than one thing on the go at once.

I try (very very hard) every day not to let it get to me because otherwise I'll just spend all of this time going on and on at them and losing my sanity.

Dh often booms RIGHT!! TIDY UP!! and they all scurry about 'tidying' (well their version of it!) but the results are only temporary.

Ds is always losing his things and it's always something small or precious to him that he's left lying about.

Our house is small too. We scrape it all to roughly where it's suposed to go and then once in a while I blitz it and thouroughly go through putting everything back together (who invented bloody polly pocket??)

I don't thing (imho) that the 'one toy out at a time' rule would last 5 minutes here. The depressing sound of a box of 'stuff' being tipped out makes me wince.

I might grumble a bit, occasionally I blow up, but it falls on deaf ears. You have to let it just happen at this age I think and pick your battles. This one isn't winnable.

TinyGang · 11/03/2007 17:40

Oh, and putting some toys away and rotating them every few weeks keeps them interesting and means they have less out.

I find with my children, that they play better with fewer toys than tipping the whole lot out and sitting in the middle of it all.

That the theory anyway

grouchyoscar · 11/03/2007 17:46

Lmccrean

Don't beat up on yourself about it. She got to you, you snapped. The good thing is you feel bad about it.

Go give her a big hug and say sorry, tell her you love her and explain why you hit her and why you feel sad. Tell her you love her deeply and it was the behaviour that you disliked.

I feel you must be a saint/superparent to never ever lose it with a difficult LO

(OK heavy sh*t TMI time)

I have a strong willed 3.7 yr old DS. He can be very very difficult and his school have acknowledged this and how hard I find it personally, coping with Him and deteriorating health issues. Last week he was playing up and making it difficult to dress him for school (again) I ended up pinning him to the floor and stopped just short of really laying into him. I stopped the moment I realised I would have hit him to relive my own frustration.

Ashamed I informed his nursery teacher of the incident and stressed that I needed to let a 3rd party know that I was scared of what I may be capable of. I am a survior of childhood domestic abuse and I did not want to see the same pattern happening to DS

She had managed to organise a councillor for me that afternoon so I could talk through a huge ammount of issues I thought I had dealt with years ago. She said that I had made a huge step for showing control and not fliping.

I suppose I'm trying to say that It happened but the good thing is you feel awful and that you're telling us about it. Also that you'red not alone and many of us have been there. Sorry I wasn't that concise, I'm not suggesting you have issues like mine, I'm trying to empathise but just rubbish at expressing myself quickly.

Now where's that DD? Go hug, kiss and love here and put this behind you now.

mumeeee · 11/03/2007 17:54

Sorry I think this is too harsh for a 4 year old.Yes it is good to teach her to tidy her things away, but why cant she have more than one toy out at a time?
Also at this age they need help to tidy up.
I se she has to tidy up at playgroup, but she would have help from otger children and staff to do this.
Just relax a bit and help her to tidy when she neees to.

hatwoman · 11/03/2007 18:20

lmccream - I have a 4 year old who is so pushing all my buttons at the moment so lots of sympathy. I think there's some helpful suggestions here - maybe rework the rules a bit - how about tidying up before each mealtime? or just every bed-time/before bath etc? Another thing you might try is to make your storage child-friendly. dds and I spent a whole saturday sorting toys out - with them having a say as to what went where. I bought a laminator for about £10 from Rymans and they made labels for different boxes by cutting out pictures from a catalogue - it hasn;t worked perfectly (no system does...) but they kind of take a bit of pride now in putting things in the right boxes. I'd also emphasise and reward the good - rather than taking away toys when she doesn't tidy. Punishments are very wearing all round - it's so much nicer to reward them for doing well. imo that doesn;t even need to be a concrete reward - Make a big fuss and praise her for doing small things and she'll build on them (I've been chipping away at getting them to fold pyjames and straighten their duvets in the morning and - almost exclusively through making a big fuss when they do it - they now do it every morning ). I hope you had a better day today.

batters · 12/03/2007 09:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RosaLuxembourg · 12/03/2007 14:13

Lmccrean - I agree with what others have said on here about being a little more laidback about the tidying up rules but I have to say I have a four year old who is pushing all my buttons in a very big way - much worse than her sisters ever did it feels like although that may be distance lending enchantment to their behaviour of course.
The one point I would like to make is that it sounds like she is being a very typical four year old. They do act like the devil's spawn and test every boundary to destruction. We have never hit any of our children but last night DH had to walk out of the room and leave her screaming because he came so close to smacking her and I have never in almost 10 years of parenting seen him do that before (though I have come close a few times).
So don't beat yourself up about what you did, just try to bear in mind that like everything else this too shall pass, and try and ride it out as lightly as you can.

OrmIrian · 12/03/2007 14:24

tinygang - "The depressing sound of a box of 'stuff' being tipped out makes me wince.
" I hear you!!!!

It's hellish if you like a tidy space - and I do - but when they are little you have to let things go a little. Even if they 'tidy up' it won't be tidy enough I can guarantee. Sounds as if the Op just got frazzled past the point of no return. Cuddles and apologies and a quiet explanation of why mummy lost it are in order. Not a bad thing for a child to understand that mummy gets upset and angry too but you have to choose your battles and tidiness isn't a good one for a 4yr old. BTW I've smacked on occasions, although I'm generally anti-smacking, and it's always been when I'm wound up and tired and it never helps.

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