Nursery have just rang me

[Notjustaboything]

And I'm horrified but not surprised.

Ds is nearly 4. (Hes the 4th child but only boy). The nursery manager has rang as he has badly scratched another child as he wanted something they had. He has form for this and lots of other aggressive behaviour. She wanted to discuss how we can deal with him. I use star chart rewards at home which kind of works ish. Oh and he also laughed when he got told off. little bugger Wtf should I do? Is it just boy behaviour? Will he grow out of it? Or am I doomed to be called in to school hated by ither parents Help please??

[Redheadsreallyrock]

A7, just saw yours - I don't think the rules change when we grow up. If we are unkind accidentally we should apologise - I try to myself.

[a7mints]

II am not going to apologise because I think merely withholding a star for scratching a child is weak and ineffectual parenting.I 100% stand by that!
would like an apology for being called diasblist, which there are absolutely no grounds for.

[ayeokthen]

If the OPs son has autism, the reasons he is lashing out are likely to be different than originally thought, therefore the strategies need to be different.
I understand that ASD presents challenges for kids, my eldest and possibly my youngest have ASD.
DD was at nursery with a little boy who has ASD and he kept pulling her hair, to the point she had hair missing on more than one occasion. I also understood that her pal wasn't being malicious or cruel, and I wanted to resolve the situation so that both of them were happy in nursery. I spoke to the nursery to see if there were strategies that could be put in place, I also spoke to the wee boy's mum to ask if there was a way I could do DDs hair which would be less likely to provoke a response. It turned out bows and bunches really bothered him, so I stopped putting bows in her hair and put it up in a bun. Job done, DD was safe and the wee boy wasn't distressed.

[a7mints]

Apologise to me than!

[Lazyafternoon]

Knowing a few children of roughly similar ages with roughly similar situations, I would say it's definitely NOT the parents 'fault'. Don't punish yourself and ignore the trolls who say stupid things. Also, while they are in the care of nursery they are their responsibility. What happens their is not all your fault! Depending how much time they spend their (e.g full time or just a couple of mornings) will depend on how much needs to come from them to deal with it.

So, firstly I'd say go into your meeting with the manager with an open mind, requesting their support, appreciate the time they're putting in etc (smooze and flatter to get them onside rather than 'telling you off'...) and can they help you by giving more details of the situation, what did they see in the build up etc. Explain what you've been doing with sticker chart at home, how you deal with bad behaviour - taking toys away etc... Then ask What strategies have they been using? Why do THEY think they aren't working? What would THEY suggest? How can you support them with these strategies. Stress it needs to be a joint effort of working together to be successful.


I'd also be cautious of using autism as an 'excuse'. Yes if he is then a diagnosis will be important to get the relevant support and help with appropriate strategies. But don't let it be an excuse for nursery to not support you , it may be more work for them but they still need to be fully involved with helping to manage his behaviour.

[ayeokthen]

I haven't called you anything A7?

[Tomorrowillbeachicken]

Nope definitely not just boy behaviour. Minimising it this way is stupid.

[MissMargie]

If he is the youngest of 4, are the older siblings all giving a very kind and considerate example?

Must say, I'd be surprised if that was the case as there is always some sibling rivalry. Does he get in the older ones' way? Does he take their toys, spoil their games?
Or might it be that they spoil and baby him.
Four is very young. Does he think he is copying behaviour he sees elsewhere?

[tonsiltennis]

A7 I've reported your subsequent posts, where you've effectively repeated the one that was deleted. Perhaps you might speak to MNHQ and ask them for an apology too?

[EenyMeenyMo]

One thing we were told at Nursery when DS was around this age (and he was the bitten/scratched victim rather than aggressor) was that it can often be a communication issue - children who are frustrated and can't communicate effectively (or as well as the individual they are arguing with) react physically- not sure what the solution is?
i do think you need to think does he get treated any differently because he is the youngest or because he is a boy

[EternallyYouthful]

Why when someone posts their opinion on something that others don't agree with they automatically get called goady or a troll?

Do not post on here if you can't take criticism, some are very brave for bringing their problems to this site, with all the bullied and those who like to gang up/pick on people.

OP I hope you come to a solution soon

[mikado1]

Thanks hz hellochicken and others for interesting and useful tips. Thanks op this is a great thread and not the usual -take away his privileges shtick which simply doesn't work here and is not what I want anyway. All behaviour is communication.

[hoddtastic]

hang on, a nursery teacher (who is not qualified to diagnose autism) has suggested today on the phone that she thinks he may have autism and you are all jumping on someone calling them ablist? the handwringing star charting isn't working (by the op, sorry op but it isn't) there is a bit of 'oh, boys will be boys' type behaviour excusing too.

[hoddtastic]

and tonsiltennis, this is not about your child/your daughter and is not a direct attack upon your parenting. Stop making it thus.

[tonsiltennis]

Hoddtastic give over. I haven't made this about my parenting. I've used my experience to make a point.

What in your esteemed opinion should the OP do, especially in the light of the suspicions from nursery?

[hoddtastic]

I am not going to go into a delve through your posts, your first reply related this thread to your own issue with your own kid and what you perceive other people might think of your parenting... and you've run with it from what I can see.

In my highly selfesteemed opinion the OP needs to go into the nursery and find out what has happened and when, the build up to it, is it a specific child, how frequently this is happening. Where his fucking key worker is at the the time he's taking chunks out of other kids, are there any triggers (a specific kid/toy/over tired/hungry) and then work with them on a programme to support all those involved.

the nursery suspicions- well, it depends on if the nursery leader is a trained psych/teacher or a kid who left school at 16 with a GCSE in childcare and has worked her way up to be frank. And only the OP knows, you do know that autism diagnoses aren't handed out by nursery teachers don't you?

[IceBeing]

I don't think star charts are any good for NT children...I imagine that is often even more important not to go that route for children with ASD, whose behavioural issues are even less likely to be voluntary.

The answer is always to understand the causes...not slap a plaster over the results.

I don't think that is disablist, but will happily listen to anyone who thinks it is?

[hoddtastic]

and on the off chance you don't think you've taken this personally- here's your first post on the thread...

"Bad behaviour stems from home? Oh ok.

Just this very morning my son was spinning on the spot in the playground, swinging his PE bag. No amount of telling him to stop would have actually stopped him. He has Sensory Processing Disorder and his need to spin at that moment was more important than anything else. Predictably, the bag hit someone, and I'm sure those of you who are stellar parents would have decided that I am a crap mother and he is naughty and he's like this because he gets away with it at home, but you're wrong, on all counts."

[Amithenormalone]

Being a mum of 2 children with Autism first of all it could be a issue and yes it is very difficult to deal with these situations. But if the nursery are saying mild autism then it's going to be a long road before any things put in place or help is available. If you feel it could be something like autism my suggestion would be to do alot of re search into autism and also looking at strategies it's a difficult one to advise on as children are all so different so what might work for one won't work for another so it really is trail and error. Also it can take a great deal of time for the child to respond to strategies so perseverance is the key. One of the things I would stress as important is to have well established morning afternoon and bedtime routines in place as this gives the child comfort over having an idea of what's coming up and also helps to reduce the amount of anxiety a autistic child will have. Even if he's not autistic things like well established routines can help NT children with aggressive behaviour. One more thing is that even though his speech itself may be good he still might struggle with communication as we communicate in alot of ways not just by speech.

[tonsiltennis]

Hoddtastic as I've said, I used my experience, and that example as a parallel. And yes I'm fully aware of the diagnostic process for autism Thankyou.

[reallyanotherone]

Thanks User.

O/p as User everything in your o/p focussed on his sex. You asked "Is it because her's a boy", mentioned he'd the only boy after 3 girls- It all reads as if you have different expectations or are parenting differently because he's a boy.

Sticker charts/naughty step etc never ever worked for my NT DC.

For those saying the possibility of autism- even allowing for the fact it's the first time it has been mentioned and practically as a throwaway comment in a phone conversation. If the nursery manager seriously suspected it I would have expected a formal meeting with ideas and suggestions on how to get the ball rolling toward a formal diagnosis.

Anyway if he is mildly autistic, how would that make a difference in allowing this sort of behaviour? I have an autistic child in close family and they are still not allowed to bite, hit, or be aggressive. It doesn't excuse the behaviour any more than being a boy does, and still needs strategies.

So it still remains that the o/p and nursery need to find a way to stop this behaviour.

[ReallyExhaustedLlama]

My little boy is also very physical and got into trouble at nursery etc for pushing and rough stuff. It is very much in his nature and we've tried all sorts and now he's 7 it's much better. Lots of emphasis on being gentle, positive encouragement of good behaviour as well as consequences for rough behaviour. I do think these mostly need to be at the time of the incident for a four year old I.e. Incidents at nursery dealt with at nursery at the time.

If he's likely to hit out or scratch then very regular nail trimming can reduce harm to others.

Good luck, I found it so hard as the mother to a very gentle older child number two has been much harder and was a real eye opener that it's largely to do with the child not how you parent them tho obviously that can also play a part to varying degrees.

[MrsArchchancellorRidcully]

Not read all the thread, and I have no experience of children with additional or special needs, but just wanted to share my experience, if it helps OP.

My DS (2nd child, older DD 3 yrs apart. DD is an angel child, practically perfect in every way, you know the sort - loved to bits of course) was, from about 20m old, a 'spirited and challenging child'. What that meant was he was a huge ball of fun and happiness unless he was biting, scratching, screaming, hitting etc etc. He went FT to private nursery and I DREADED pick up. It was almost every day.

In desperation I suggested to nursery that they strap him into a pushchair if he was kicking off as he could not control his emotions. The nursery, bless em, said no and worked with us and didn;t want to be so hard on him they crushed his 'ness'.

Fast forward to almost 5 yrs old and it's taken this long for him to be a star at school, which he's just started full time. It's been a hard hard slog and I have no answers or solutions except time. DS was overwhelmed by emotions, still is but now knows how to cope with them. He can be a bugger at home but has just won star of the week at school. It does seem he's exceptionally bright, which may be a reason for the behaviour.

I just wanted to reassure OP that sometimes there is no solution except being consistent with boundaries and the like and just riding it out.

[HeCantBeSerious]

If we are unkind accidentally we should apologise - I try to myself.

An apology means nothing if it's an impulse rather than a response with meaning, whatever your age.

[bumblingbovine49]

I wanted to post that DS was like this at thus age. I have a home communication book from nursery that included him pouring buckets of cold water on some children, hitting. fighting, scratching etc. Most days he would have at least one incident and often more and this was in 2.5 hour session!! He really was very very difficult to manage at nursery. In fact they allocated him a dedicated TA for 15 hours a week almost within a few weeks of him arriving in nursery . They were a brilliant nursery

We had similar problems with him at at home until about the age of 5 years old. At home we got rid of his aggressive behaviour towards other children and us by effectively removing him IMMEDIATELY from any situation where he hurt anyone. Funnily enough he found this very upsetting as he often wanted to play with other children, he just didn't know how and noisy crowded environments always led to him being over excited. We tried to avoid the things we worked out as triggers as well obviously but this didn't always work.

I remember one time at about 2.5 years old he was playing in a quiet sandpit. Another similar aged child came along and I started worrying as I could see signs that DS was a bit stressed so I went in and tried to distract him and to get him to play a bit less boisterously. He had been digging furiously and sand was flying around a bit which had been fine when there were no other children there but not so OK when the other child arrived. I was considering whether to remove him but wasn't keen as he hadn't actually done anything wrong yet and I knew he would really scream unless I gave him a warning about leaving .

The other parent thought I was being a bit OTT and said "oh he is fine. I could see she thought I was being too much of a helicopter parent. DS is an only and she had 3 children with her. I turned around to say to her, that he could be a bit unpredictable and before I finished my sentence he had hit the little girl over the head quite hard with a plastic spade.

I lost count of the times I left a park, play area or other "fun" activity carrying an absolutely screaming DS because he had hurt someone (I always warned him if it happened we would be leaving). He would often scream and cry for ages afterwards. Our technique was to get him to a safe place (the car, our home) and ignore the crying/screaming . We would stay with him and keep him safe but would absolutely not engage with him until he was calm.

After wards, when he was much calmer we would explain why he had had to leave. It took about a year but by the time he was 4-5 years old he had stopped his aggressive behaviour at home or when out with us completely. He still played boisterously and needed to run a lot but he didn't deliberately hurt people anymore

School was another matter he kept huting children there until about year 5 when it seemed to tail off completely. He is 11 years old now and has been in any trouble at school for hurting anyone for two years. His primary were really really good and worked with him a lot to get him to learn to control his aggression .

DS had a diagnosis of ASD and ADHD at 6 years old. I just wanted to explain all this so that people can see that this behaviour can change for children even those with ADS/ADHD but it often takes a LOT longer than you think it will. Also without a suportive school/nursery you will get nowhere.

For us DS only really behaved like this at school (after the age of about 5) so it was hard for us to do much except work with the school to encourage/support and yes sometimes to punish. It was incredibly difficult and stressful though and we had a lot of parents who were incredibly unhappy with us about it.

I very am proud of DS though . He has just started in year 7 at a mainstream school and is doing really well so far