Nursery have just rang me

[Notjustaboything]

And I'm horrified but not surprised.

Ds is nearly 4. (Hes the 4th child but only boy). The nursery manager has rang as he has badly scratched another child as he wanted something they had. He has form for this and lots of other aggressive behaviour. She wanted to discuss how we can deal with him. I use star chart rewards at home which kind of works ish. Oh and he also laughed when he got told off. little bugger Wtf should I do? Is it just boy behaviour? Will he grow out of it? Or am I doomed to be called in to school hated by ither parents Help please??

[EternallyYouthful]

Boosiehs makes me wonder too, I believe that bad behaviour stems from home.

Notjustaboything Some good advice has been given to you here, but I would try taking away his favourite toy(s) first.

Good luck

[PatriciaHolm]

I think you definitely need to have a meeting with nursery if this is ongoing behaviour; it sounds as if he's regularly hurting other children, which is a step beyond general toddler misbehaviour, especially at nearly 4.

Nursery may well suggest getting an outside view of his behaviour, which would probably be a good idea at this point. Realistically it sounds as if you need new strategies.

[user1476140278]

How's his diet? My DD's behaviour improved when I cut out all processed foods.

She has a muffin now and then which I make myself but otherwise no crap. She's much calmer.

I stopped buying things like coco pops, no cereal bars, no little sugary yogurts...she adjusted and is much better for it.

[Notjustaboything]

Boosiehs makes me wonder too, I believe that bad behaviour stems from home.
bloody hell, thanks.

[Peach9876]

Do you think I should search the parent out and apologise? If I was to do this everytine hes hurt someone i'd be dojng it ALOT. I also don't want to draw attention to the fact hes a thug.

I'm quite worried about this 'A LOT'. Is he being aggressive and hurting children a lot? Is it a frequent thing at nursery? How do the staff at nursery handle it?
As a PP said his laughing could be to try to appease or because he is uncomfortable and doesn't know how to react. But it could also because he does find this situation funny. It can be difficult to tell.
Are the nursery doing any sanctions? I find that with children of this age they still need something there and then to drill into them that this behaviour isn't good.
At a nursery I worked at we would ask the offending child to move to a different area, if they couldn't play with (for example) the cars nicely then they would have to go play elsewhere. This would work for some as they would lose the toy they were being aggressive about trying to keep/get. Others after careful talks with parents/management/staff we took extra measures such as sitting in timeout, being removed from that room, being sent in with the babies or even being sent to sit in the manager's office (who was the only one who would shout). Different things work for different children/families.

How long have you been doing the star charts? Are they actually helping at home? Instead of reacting 5/5 times is it now 1/5 or is it a case of his siblings/you have stopped causing his aggression to start?
Doesn't sound like they are making enough impact at nursery. Again I would try to be more immediate. Maybe have a treat/toy/sticker/whatever with you everyday. Ask the staff to make a note of any shouting, hurting, aggression and he only gets a reward there and then. If he has hurt then no reward and he has a sanction at home too, a toy removed from his room which he can earn back by being nice.

[tonsiltennis]

Bad behaviour stems from home? Oh ok.

Just this very morning my son was spinning on the spot in the playground, swinging his PE bag. No amount of telling him to stop would have actually stopped him. He has Sensory Processing Disorder and his need to spin at that moment was more important than anything else. Predictably, the bag hit someone, and I'm sure those of you who are stellar parents would have decided that I am a crap mother and he is naughty and he's like this because he gets away with it at home, but you're wrong, on all counts.

[Notjustaboything]

I have just spoken to nursery manager to arrange a meeting. Manager thinks he may have very mild autism.

[tonsiltennis]

I wondered re autism/SPD.

[user1476140278]

Did she say that on the phone OP! That's not very sensitive or professional of her at all! She should have told you that face to face!

If he has got some mild autism though, at least if it is flagged at this age, he can get some support and they can work towards helping him not feel stressed at nursery which is probably what's causing this behaviour.

[tonsiltennis]

Boosiehs you've just summed up some of the frustrations of life with a child who might be non-standard. The naughty step, reward charts and toy removal work like charms with neuro typical kids. And they don't work with children who are wired differently.

If you have a child demonstrating behaviours which others might label as naughty, most caring parents will try anything to get the child to "behave" and then get frustrated when they don't, AND have to face the judgements of parents whose children are NT, and will respond to sanctions like those you've suggested.

If you have a child with autism/SPD, you effectively have to rethink all your strategies and employ ones which to the untrained eye can simply appear to be capitulation or ignoring.

[tonsiltennis]

a7mints what a horrible post! She's got a child who is demonstrating enough unusual behaviour for his teachers to suspect autism, and you're calling her weak and ineffective! I'm reporting your appalling disablist personal attack. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Hellochicken]

I think star charts are to reward good behaviour, or something he can think about. Not scratching/ biting /hitting etc

At 4 if he is feeling angry/lashing out. He needs immediately to be calmly told that he can't ever do that. Immediate punishment. Also when you are at home closer monitoring of situation just before aggression and then intervene
I say "I can see you are feeling angry, it is really annoying that X took your toy" or "X said that to you" or "X is doing that when you dont want X to"

"what are you going to do now?"
and then suggest he could

• tell you
  
• tell X he is being unfair
  
• wait until X is finished with toy
  

and also my DCs lose the plot if someone lies. eg "you don't know how to play football" when DC does. So I spend quite a lot of time saying "think about that, is what X said true?" "No it is not true, so you can either

• tell him it is not true
  
• ignore him as you know it is not true
  
• check with me
  

I think you have to work out what type of situations make him so mad and practice other options of response.

[5moreminutes]

NotJustaBoy - not just a boy thing as everyone has said - but - it could be a bit of a youngest of several children thing.

Not that all youngests have this phase, nor exclusively youngests of course

but my older two are very close in age and then I have a bit of a gap (only 3.5 years but seemed like a huge gap when he was small), and the older two absolutely indulged him - he was the cutest toddler (not mum goggles obviously) with big long lashed eyes and longish blond hair and the cheekiest grin, always doing amusing things and striking poses...

He was ridiculously spoiled by his siblings more than us, but also he grew up hearing us telling his siblings that we were sorry DC3 had broken X or interrupted Y or made Z dirty, and we would do a better job of keeping him away, but he was only little and didn't understand and they were such good big brother and sister not to get cross with him and to always be so gentle with him... that of course he was naughty when he hit or pulled hair, but toddlers don't understand what they are doing the same way big children do (and he would say sorry and do the big eyes and they'd ask him for a cuddle and be friends again).

Backfired spectacularly for a while as DC3 always thought of himself as the cute little imp who couldn't actually hurt anyone or do any real harm. He got to 3 and 4 and actually could hurt his siblings, and was older than DC1 & 2 had been when the Big Sibling tolerance had been expected...

He never lashed out at preschool through luck more than judgement, but he also never had the older sibling's innate instinct to be gentle and tolerant with other kids. It took a long time to re-condition him to realise he no longer had a get out of jail free card!

[ADishBestEatenCold]

"Lovely Perhaps they are trying their hardest like most us are."

I understand that this is a distressing situation for you, Notjustaboything, but did you 'hear' what Boosiehs said?
Her son has a bad scar on his face. That's possibly a permanent thing. How would you expect her to feel, when she sees the child who caused it being 'permitted' to carry on hurting others?

"Do you think I should search the parent out and apologise? If I was to do this everytine hes hurt someone i'd be dojng it ALOT. I also don't want to draw attention to the fact hes a thug."

By your own admission you do not interact with the parents (of the children your son has hurt) about this. Perhaps the family of the child who hurt Boosiehs's son also chose not to seek out or interact (apologise, maybe), too.
So how on earth are parents of children who have been hurt meant to realise that "they are trying their hardest like most us are"? To the parents of the children who have been hurt, that may well not be evident.

Yes, I think you should seek out parents and apologise for the hurt and explain that you are working with the nursery (and whatever other help you can get) to ensure that this doesn't happen again.
Don't worry about "(drawing) attention to the fact hes a thug" ... if this is happening as you say, a lot, they will already be upset, cross and judging you and your little boy.
I think you should bring it out into the open and try to defuse the situation. Otherwise you are going to have a very lonely little boy at school.

[Jackiebrambles]

Just as an aside re contacting the other parents, at our pre-school when an incident like this happens they go out of their way not to tell you who the child was that did the bite/scratch or whatever. So they might not want to tell the OP who the child was who was hurt. They try to keep in anonymous.

I agree that a reward chart for this sort of thing doesn't seem quite right. I see those more for brushing teeth well, getting dressed without a fuss etc.

My boy is not at all aggressive, I don't think we've had a violent incident since he was around 2 and bit a child.

However some of his peers (boys and girls) are definitely more physically aggressive so it is not at all unusual or ANY reflection on their lovely parents and home lives (and I know them both well!). Chin up OP, don't let the mean posts get you down.

[goingtotown]

Maybe he's not getting a balanced diet. I worked in a play group many years ago, some aggressive kids would arrive having had biscuits,chocolate,crisps or anything that was easy to grab for breakfast. I can always remember a little girl always smelling of Monster Munch crisps.

[tonsiltennis]

goingtotown yeah, it's probably the fault of the parents...

Just ask the OP straight: "Are you feeding him properly?"

[WankersHacksandThieves]

I have two boys, now teenagers, neither of them behaved like that at nursery. I've come across girls and boys who been scratchers etc.

I think you maybe need to come up with a consistent plan with nursery so you are both dealing with it in the same way, that "way" may take trial and error though. Is it attention seeking do you think or do his siblings let him away with murder since he's the youngest and the opposite gender? DHs little sister used to get away with everything since she had 5 older brothers.

[EternallyYouthful]

goingtotown hasn't actually said anything rude... well I don't think she has.

Children who do have a badly balanced diet usually do have some kind of behavioural problems, a lot of parents do tend to reward their child with sweets, and junk food, which is just wrong.

[Redheadsreallyrock]

Op I am sending you some and an un mn hug.

You sound like a good mum to me - if you weren't you wouldn't be on here asking how things to get things back on track.

To everyone saying bad behaviour must come from home, honestly this is complete rubbish.

Many children grow out of this behaviour with good guidance at home and school. I used to play with a little boy who at nursery age used to often hit me and other children over the head with toys. He's now over 30 and a trusted professional who shows no signs of violence as far as I can see.

[a7mints]

a7mints what a horrible post! She's got a child who is demonstrating enough unusual behaviour for his teachers to suspect autism, and you're calling her weak and ineffective! I'm reporting your appalling disablist personal attack. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Disablism,! what on earth are you droning on about?
the post was about the consequences of bad behaviour the OP had instigated..Bore off with your professional offendedness!

[HeCantBeSerious]

Explain to him that if he pushes, kicks, scratches a child it's an immediate red card (football analogy here) and is an immediate punishment, favorite toy goes on the fridge, child has to sit on chair for 4 minutes and has to apologise. If he laughs, take away another toy, tablet, TVs time, game whatever. Whatever works for him. He needs to get it, and you need to be very firm and consistent. He needs to understand that every time he is aggressive something will happen and it will be a punishment, every single time.

Couldn't disagree more. The why is the most important bit. Sitting them on a seat without explanation and demanding an apology will teach that they can do anything so long as they say sorry. Surely that's not what you want?!

More flies with honey and all that.

[Redheadsreallyrock]

A7 it really was an unkind post - personal attack on op on no grounds.

And disablist - if a child is thought potentially not to be neurotypical (even if just a query not diagnosed and very mild) that should be grounds to think that usual parenting strategies may not work and something different might be needed. Even more reason not to criticise a mother who was told today that her ds might be on the spectrum. Have some compassion.

I see mn have deleted you so quickly I hadn't even managed to report you yet.