How do your 7-8 yo boys deal with peer-pressure?

[frogs]

This is going to be longish and convoluted, but I'd really appreciate some other experiences.

Ds (Y3) is a July baby, one of the youngest in his year. In terms of schoolwork and general social confidence and ability he's towards the top of the class, he's sporty and at least averagely tall. But he's locked into a somewhat destructive relationship with a group of boys in his class, led by one boy in particular (let us call him Leon) who is one of the oldest in the year and clearly has ambitions to be the class alpha male (tall, sporty, good-looking, clever and more streetwise than my ds).

I've known for years that there were tensions between ds and Leon, who does go out of his way to try and assert his superiority, which ds is absolutely not prepared to accept, even though he knows he's a bit outclassed. It came to a head over lunch today, when I told him that the music teacher at school had asked me to get ds to take his instrument into school for an informal audition to play in school concert. Ds flatly refused and became hysterically tearful quite quickly. Turns out he was worried about Leon and his little mates laughing at him, which is apparently a fairly regular occurrence. My observation whenever I walk past the playground during school hours is that ds is usually to be found in the noisy thick of things, having what appears to be a fine time. But whenever he comes home in a bad mood, there's always a Leon angle to whatever story I finally manage to winkle out of him.

I don't think this is bullying, but I do think it's a boy pecking-order thing. There's possibly also a race angle to it (not racist, though) inasmuch as the leader and a few of his mates are mixed race and therefore clearly ahead in the cool stakes. The white boys in the class have largely carved niches for themselves that avoid conflict with this boy (one has the nerdy maths-whizz slot, two others are the class August babies and bimble about together letting the male politics of it all go right over their heads). Some others are happy to go along with letting Leon be the leader. Unfortunately both ds and Leon are in the same ability group, and are thrown together quite a bit, although the teacher knows there are issues and has done her best to minimize it.

Any ideas? We've resolved the music thing to ds's satisfaction (I said I'd talk to the music teacher and ds could do his audition at lunchtime or after school rather than in the class music lesson, which I suspect is what he was worried about). But I know the issue will resurface just because there is such a profound personality clash between the two boys. Unfortunately it's a one form entry school, so they're both in it for the next four years.

Ah- I haven't seen your older boy with his peers but your younger son is a wonderful law unto himself in that respect, I would say, tm. He's the type of kid who blows pecking orders out of the water by doing his own thing with total and infectious enthusiasm. He's a natural leader in that way, I'd say. I know I've only met him a few times but his social confidence and self confidence are very striking, imo. Great kid. Lovely mum he has too.

He's certainly not nerdy .

Scummy your message made me smile just like this . You are dead right, ds2 is a law unto himself.

I was thinking about this thread this evening and asked my two sons (separately) if they thought there was a pecking order/ most popular boy order in year 3.

DS1 912) said there certainly was, but it changed over time. The coolest, most popular kids in year 6 were not necessarily the coolest, most popular in year 3. Interestingly his current best friend is a boy who was in his class at primary school. They shared the same classroom for 4 years but were never that close till they left the school.

Later I asked my ds2 if there was any boy in his class who was especially popular and cool. Without hesitation he said 'x' who actually seems a quite a lot like Leon from ds2's brief description - clever, cool, good at football, mixed race, very tall and looks older than his age.

And 'x' sometimes does not let my ds2 join in his games, which makes ds2 a bit sad at the injustice, but not a lot sad apparentlly. I asked ds2 if he thought he himself was popular and cool. He said 'I am 50/50 like most of the kids.' I could not get any more out of him - he firmly repelled any more questions.

Love bink's phrase, 'the dilution of leon'

It looks like Leon has got qualities your son wants to have. Agree you must get him to tough it out and find his own identity.

Would help if you just don't encourage you son to talk about Leon at home? Every time he brings Leon into the conversation, yawn and say 'oh no, not Luscious Leon AGAIN' (or some such jokey nickname) and change the subject immediately. Refuse to pander to his Leon obsession? What do you think?

Okay, update time!

I think having the talk with ds in the first place helped -- he was being so male about it that although I knew it was a niggle for him I never realised it was more than that.

Also the approach suggested on the website squidette linked to seemed very sensible to me -- we've discussed with ds reasons why Leon might feel jealous of him and want to wind him up, and helped him to see that walking away or practising his 'don't give a monkey's' stare might make Leon less likely to bother. Ds has a nice line in eyebrow raising that he's been working on! Funnily enough, before tm suggested giving Leon a silly name, we'd started referring to him as 'sillyboy and his little mates', which seems to get a smile from ds.

So thank you to everyone who posted -- it was really helpful to get some other perspectives and helped us think it through. Ds seems to have a new spring in his step, so I hope that might have been what was needed.

Tigermoth, the reason I'm so up to speed on the class dynamics is just the nature of the school it's a one-form entry Church school, everybody knows each other, the children see each other outside school at Mass, church social events, birthday parties blah blah. Most of the children have known each other since they were in nappies. It's like living in a ruddy village everytime you clear your throat the world and its dog has an opinion on it.

Great to hear, Frogs. Yes - we had a silly name for our 'irritant' too, and it helps to have a laugh about it.

Frogs, glad you feel on top of the situation and your boy has more of a spring is his step. I think you've have some excellent adivice on this thread.

Embarassingly, the school my son goes to is also a small church school, one form entry, lots of mingling at church and social events. Mind you, I don't have close friends amongst the parents at in ds2's class or go into school much during the day. Also ds1 is very reticent about his school life. I ask him about school every singel day and his stock answer is 'just be quiet, mum'

Hi My ds is in yr4, he is also a July baby and is the youngest in his class. He has trouble with a boy who like "leon" is one of the older boys in the class....we shall call him Kyle, for the want of a better name lol. My DS is top of class for litracy, spelling, music, science, art, topic, history and r.e. He is average in maths and P.e well lets not go there lol he is not a sporty boy. Now "Kyle" is the opposite, he is top of the class in p.e but in the lowest group in everything else. DS and "kyle" have never really seen eye to eye and all of a sudden things have gone from bad to worse. Just last friday i collected Ds from school and found him with a split lip,ripped trousers, ripped jacket, and cut knees.....all this done by "Kyle" and his little gang. I too feel there is a race issue although maybe not racism. DS is the only white child in his class and just one of 8 in the entire school.....

The school learning mentor called "ME" in to discuss DS lack of interest in getting his work finished in class time when he knows he is going to miss playtime if he doesn't. The first thing the L.M said to me was "We know there is a rather large issue with bullying in his class towards him, but we can't understand why he won't do his work whensaid he knows he will miss playtime"

I was taken aback that the school could not figure out what was going on and I explained Ds is quite happy to miss playtime, as it means he won't be bullied during that time. The L.M has now said she will call in the other kids parents. "Kyle" also has a little gang....and they all taunt DS daily.

Anyone who has got any ideas aside from changing his school as i do not want to teach him to run away from problems rather than sort them out, I will be grateful.

Thanks
xoxoxox

MejustMe that sounds horrible - I can't believe that they knew there was an issue and a didn't tell you, and b did nothing about it. Idiots. My ds is also in yr 3 but appears to have no problems with his bunch of friends, who are generally a nice lot. But then he has a very individual style, and utterly unconcerned about how he looks etc (he claimed that his inside out sweatshirt was not an issue yesterday - no one would notice he said!). He came home with the nicest thing on Friday when he was "star of the week", and all the children in his class has made a sticker about why they liked him and stuck it onto his star card. Very nice - it's part of their phse project this term, and all the children will have one (he was working out how long it would take). He did have a spot of bother with one kid earlier, but seems quite happy to accept that he just is a nasty sort of kid (also the school sorted it out pretty fast when we raised it with his class teacher). dd on the other hand is incredibly sensitive to class room politics, and frequently will cry about what other children say or do (she is in yr1). I worry much more about her.

If there's bulling usually kicking the bully very hard is pretty effective but I doubt anyone will recommend it on this thread. If it's just cool or uncool I can see that emerging in the twins' class (same age, different classes, very different boys) and it's just part of life - will you be cool at work or the one specs with her knitting but happy to be different etc. So isn't it a useful learning exercise for him and his chance to decide where he is going to fit for the next 4 years?

May be Leon will change anyway as they all change a lot at this age and it won't be such an issue as time goes on. Invite him over to something which they'd both enjoy or something may be?

Can identify with many of these postings. My Y2 boy is going through similar experiences. He is one of 2 white children in a class of 30. The other white boy, Peter is in the top set, my son is in the second. They are kind of thrown together although they do really seem to quite like eachother.

Last night DS told me that Peter is better than him at everything. DS has been reluctant to go to school recently and is very cross about anything school related. DS has really come on recently especially with his reading and IMO is catching up with his peers who are in the top set( all the children he plays with are in that set) I tried to build up his self-esteem by talking about all the things he is really good at. He is very good at physical activities such as climbing, rollerblading, skate boarding etc.(better than Peter)

I have always tried to play down any competitiveness as I am not particularly keen on it. Peter is very competive and is keen to let us know how good he is at everything. I have tried to cultivate some out of school activites for DS but now Peter wants to join him. I think this level of competitiveness between boys is natural but I am finding it difficult. Has anyone anymore ideas on how to handle it sensitvely for all parties?

God small boys can be so horrible to each other can't they. My Yr 2 DS was best friends with another boy (X) since nursery, but X started school a few months ahead of my DS (a 2 -tier entry system here). Now X had always been a follower, shy and sensitive, but suddenly, by january when DS started school, X had become the king of the castle with about 5 other boys literally hanging on his every word. X quickly realised he had this power over the other boys and that what he says goes, and still uses it to this day, 2 years later. The other boys in the clique talk about nothing but X and whether they are his best friend or not. My DS is totally bewildered and can't understand, because until school started he and X were joined at the hip. He gets very upset about being left out and ignored by X and whoever is his best friend of the moment. My theory (and that of a couple of other mums of boys in the clique) is that it's because X never wants for anything, he's always got the latest gadget or PS2 game or whatever, and has two very well-off families (his parents are amicably divorced) jostling to outdo each other on expensive presents and holidays. None of the other boys have so much and I think they believe this makes X the top of the pile. And X is always pointing out that he has th newest/latest/better version of whatever toy DS has.

DS does have other friends but still says that X is his best friend, even when it's patently obvious that this isn't what X believes. I wish DS would make more of his other friends and stop being so obsessed with X, but nothing DH and I do or say makes any difference.

All you can do is support your child and build there self confidence. I posted about this last summer and got lots of very useful replies, the best of which basically said 'boys are horrible, it will pass.' So I'm just waiting till it does.

Another update -- ds came out of school today with a broad smile all over his face, and kept chuckling to himself on the way home. When I finally asked him what was up he said, "Me and XX were chosen to get the lunchboxes from the dining room before hometime, and I took Leon's lunchbox out of the Y3 box and put it in the Y6 box. He was running all over the school looking for it!" Normally I'd tell him off for a stunt like that, but it seemed fair enough unde rthe circs.

I've also had a word with the delightful and immensely cool male playworker at the after-school club ds goes to 2 days a week, who was really pleased I'd told him and promised to make it his mission to build up ds's self-esteem. I suspect this will take the form of teaching him tricks to win at playstation games, but if it works, who cares?

I was about to suggest an after school club but I see your ds already goes to one. My ds must be pretty much exactly the same age as yours - he is also P3 and July birthday. He is teased a bit because of his oddities (he has autism) but fortunately he doesn't seem to notice and is quite thick skinned. He really doesn't have any friends at all and is beginning to want them which is hard. He does enjoy the after school club he attends and I am hoping to try out cubs/scouts. Would your ds like that also?

Sorry not been much help really.

He'd love cubs/scouts, Eulalia, but he already does football club and cricket training, and there's a limit to how many after-school clubs one family can accommodate.

Hope your ds finds some friends my ds gets on well with dino's ds who has HFA. They both talk quite a lot and are very earnest about Harry Potter and the Famous Five it's rather sweet. Hopefully your ds will find a chum who is happy to accommodate his eccentricities in return for passing up on the whole boy-status-wrangling thing -- judging by this thread there must be quite a lot of boys who feel that way.