I don't like my children very much AT ALL at the moment (rant and general moan)

[oliveoil]

They are driving me round the bend.

dd1 has just turned 4. Strops about, refuses to eat stuff she used to like, messing around at bedtime and in the night (I am averaging 3 hours a night atm).

dd2 is 2. Every. Single. Thing. Is. A. Battle. And I mean EVERYTHING. Whether her socks are the 'wrong' colour, or she doesn't like her coat, or her carrots are chopped 'wrong', I spend the whole fockin day being a referee and trying to stop tantrums.

And I am heartily sick of it.

I love them obviously and they are gorgeous yadda yadda yadda

But I am sooooooooooooooooooooo glad I work atm (even though I can hardly keep my eyes open).

How can I make them nice Waltonesque children?

x

Can you up your hours? (you're part time iirc)

Not really

and to my shame when dd1 was rolling around the floor in a strop over her place at the table yesterday (wtf????) I said that if she carried on I would not be off work with her anymore as she wasn't very nice to be around

I said sorry later when she had calmed down but still

They drive me mad

at 6.50am this morning she threw he (ironed) top on the floor and stood on it and said she didn't like it so I shouted at her, which does not help at all

oh no, I know the feeling. Dd has HER chair, which is the NEW chair at the kitchen table and I can't be arsed doing battle on it.

Can you take the path of least resistance while you're this knackered? I do sympathise, no sleep is pants.

she wanted us all (me, dd1 and dd2) to sit on the same narrow side of the table so I said no and she threw herself on the floor . Dd2 then leaned over her and said "okay dd1?" and was rewarded with a kick!!!!

I pick my battles but every sodding thing is a battle

They eat well (or are provided with good food ), don't eat much crap so it is not diet

They go to bed at 7pm

It is a happy house (most of the time)

So I have no idea what is causing this behaviour

I am off to Gap with my sister to get stuff for them for Christmas, I may get straightjackets....

Will be back in a bit, please leave me some tips!

xx

oh Olive, my dds are 4 and 6 now and things have improved immeasurably.

Mine were just like your two at that age - the worst period of no-sleep I ever had. Is DD1 at school yet?

Olive,I know just how you feel,my dd(6)is being quite good at the mo,but my ds is three in two weeks and he is a NIGHTMARE of epic proportions at the moment.Poor little thing isn't well but it's constant tantrum at the moment over everything.I like you pick my battles but it's hard when they make everything a battle
I try to actually ignore him now but he's cottoned on to it and now just cries/screams for the ting he wants/wants to do etc constantly over and over till I feel my head will explode,he never used to be this bad,my mum says they get this way just before they turn 3,then they calm down abit,lol.

I just hope (and pray) it's true,hope you get abit of calm soon
x

You asked for tips? I'm no expert, but this is what I did with my DD (5.12 - so not really an issue now) and DS (just turned 3 - very much an ongoing project).

Pick battles - you say you already do this but really try to edit them down cos its so wearing having to battle over everything, I so understand that.

When you are having a battle, stick to your guns and be absolutely firm and clear about what you are going to do if the behaviour doesn't improve. If you say "No pudding" or "I'm going to take you home" (from some nice playdate or activity or whatever) then you must do it. I'm so sick of hearing parents say that, then not seeing it through.

At the same time, give the little blighter plenty of opportunity to explain to you exactly what is wrong and what they would like to change. Set a time limit on this "I'm going to count to 5, after that you can tell me what you want".

If they can't or won't articulate it, then just say I'm not going to be in the same room as you while you're making all this noise, go somewhere else, do something else, (if after 5pm, pour yourself a glass of wine to take with you, if before 5pm - Rescue Remedy?) say "come and find me when you can talk to me properly".

If they come too soon, hold the door closed and repeat the instructions through the door.

Eventually the tantrum will subside.

Have a cuddle and tell the little darling why you did what you did.

Next time trouble is brewing you can say "remember what happened when ... we don't want all that fuss again, do we?"

I should think your first priority is to get the 4 year old sorted out with sleep? She is old enough to know better (that's not meant to sound judgemental, btw) - but everything seems so much worse when you're tired and you haven't got the energy to stand your ground.

Apologies if you're doing these things already. Like I said, they're just my personal rules, and my bubs are pretty well behaved. But, blimey, we do have huge upsets and tantrums and very occasional smacks (always warned in advance) and its SUCH hard work, isn't it?

3 is worse than 2 (ages, not numbers of children) imho.

I envy you having a part-time job! And getting to go to Gap in your lunch hour ...

xx

thank you everyone

I am still knackered but have just gone round the shops with big sister and feel a tad better (she doesn't have children and I feel her pity, lol)

I try and be firm but I do shout a lot and need to curtail that I think, shouting makes them upset and I do know that but it is all very well being reasonable on here in a quiet office, a completely different thing at home

I have no idea what to do on the sleep thing, she has always been a 7pm-7am girl and now is dreadful. Dd2 has always been a pain on the sleep front.

Oh well, 3 hours of peace left, then back to the frontline

what is dd1 doing in the night that you're only getting 3 hours sleep?

Oh Olive - poor you!!!
You are not alone! My ds1 is now 20, ds2 nearly 10 and dd 8. And despite a combined total of almost 40 years parenting I STILL want to chuck the contents of the kitchen bin at them sometimes! My lowest moment was when ds 2 had a two day strop cos he wanted his poo back after I flushed the contents of the potty away! He refused to sit on the pot, wouldn't go in a nappy and writhing in agony before he accepted that the poo was going to come out and get flushed!!! Despite what they do to us we still manage to love the little bs!

she goes to bed at 7pm very tired, I read story. Then she wails on for about 45 mins (whilst my dinner gets cold and my temperature rises) and then eventually settles.

Wakes up in the night and screeches for me, I go in, try to settle. Sometimes will go to sleep, but more often than not I have to get in her bed (or she will wake dd2, as she did last night) and she then pisses about for hours. Last night was 2am - 4am on and off. I got up at 5.30am.

So last night I got more than 3, maybe 5 in spits and spats.

Now she was ill a few weeks back - vomiting and weird chest - so was in my bed, do you think she quite likes the idea and wants more attention?

I can't leave her to cry as she is v stubborn and would wail all night.

and I won't even START on dd2's sleeping habits

Oh yes. Crikey, can remember the joy of trying to get them to sleep properly again after illness. They LOVE the night time attention they get when they're ill.

Now at the risk of sounding uncaring (which I'm not), I think you may have to leave her to settle herself. Or could you do that heinous thing of promising a reward if she's an extra special big girl and spends all night in her bed without wailing?

Are they sharing a room?

they are not sharing a room, dd2 is at the end of the corridor but has ears like a very-good-hearing-thing

is it bad to say that Father Christmas may not come.........? I am tempted (and a bad mother)

lol

have you tried the dreaded sticker charts? one sticker for staying in bed all night etc.

maybe try giving her extra cuddles this week before bed

then tell her santa is watching!

we do the sticker thing for eating (like it works, NOT)

agree on cuddles, I need more patience I think

will try later and report back on my NEW BROADBAND CONNECTION

they (sticker charts) never worked for us either (if that's any consolation)

think extra cuddles may be key - hope it works - I HATE having my sleep disturbed!

(v exciting news about broadband!)

I know!

dh keeps saying 'what's mumsnet' and I herd him away jealously

he looks on music sites and bores me to death

have to go and do some work now, will be back

xx

I'm having the exact same problem with my 4 year old DS1. It usually ends up with me screeching at him, him crying, me getting into his bed feeling guilty then cuddling him to sleep. Obviously not the way forward.

Yesterday I instigated a new regime: I am calmly (or trying to be anyway) picking him up, taking him back to bed, repeating in calm voice 'it's bed time' and so on ad infinitum until 9pm when he drops off through sheer exhaustion. I'm not sure if this is going to work in the long term and would welcome any other suggestions, but I do feel better for at least having a plan of attack. And the advantage of keeping calm is that I don't spend the rest of the evening racked with guilt about my bad parenting. Oh, and repeated treks up and down stairs means I no longer have to worry about going to the gym.

(have tried and failed with sticker charts and other bribery)

MrsW - I'm sure it will work. If he is getting out lots of times, I'd consider putting a chair outside his bedroom door, and staying put (with magazine/book/glassofwine/cupoftea for your entertainment) and then calmly taking him by the hand (rather than picking up) and putting him back to bed the minute he opens the door. It worked for my two. My DD started getting out of bed when she was 3 and a half, my DS (3.3) has been doing it recently. Took about two or three nights to get DD out of the habit, with DS its work in progress but he hasn't done it for the last three or four nights so fingers crossed here.

Its a sacrifice in terms of your evenings while you do it, but imo well worth it.

I FEEL your pain! In some ways I was lucky- in that my DS1 was SUCH a nightmare during his first year that once we'd FINALLY got settled into the routine many of my friends had been 'enjoying' from week SIX, when the bedtime sillies started, I dealt with them like a woman possessed! The key, for me was grinding, exhausted consistency. I did the whole 'controlled crying' thing which at times was agony BUT we weren't 'going THERE' again. And recently I saw one of those supernanny type progs on TV and this poor woman put her 4 year old to bed NINETY SIX times the first night! But, god, her determination. By the end of that Week From Hell, she'd nailed it. No more buggering about at bedtime.

Regarding shouting- for me, and I can only speak for us, of course, I felt that, within reason, it didn't hurt the kids (then 3 and 5) to discover that mummy, too, has limits and HERE THEY ARE. I was always amazed at the instantaneous result as suddenly raised voice got which half an hour of being OH SO SENSIBLE didn't! And, TBH, with 2 boys, you HAVE to shout to a certain extent to get heard above the mayhem!
Another random thought- regarding 'old enough to understand', that writer, again only imho, has a point. For us it was the tears over homework routine that was grinding us down. Then, one evening, DH snapped and gave DS1 a damn good talking to; I quavered, wondering whether to rush in and quell and defend, but lo! No tears since! A line was drawn in the sand.
But, my initial point remains. Where you're at is hell and I deeply sympathise. An approach needs planning, courage, then 'brutal' execution. Take no prisoners! And the very best of luck.

This thread has scared the living bejesus out of me. DS1 only slept through at nine months. And from then still had lots of nightwakings sporadically. And always woke at 5.30. He is now 2.9 and has only in the last 2 months started sleeping to 6.30 and occasionally 6.45.

DS2 arrived. Initially slept through earlier but then had one bad cough after another and basically he was about 9 months until he slept through consistently. For a month. And then it all fell to pieces because we moved house, changed nursery, sickness blah blah.

Between the two of them I average between 3 and 5 hours sleep a night in little snatched bits. LAst week on one night I got 3 hours and the next got 1.5 hours. And I run a business from home. In fact last week was the first time I had work rejected by a client - I wonder why???

Every now and then they both sleep through and I am like the walking dead woman the next day - I have become so used to so little sleep that a good night knocks me for six.

But DS1 was tantrum king of the universe. Between 18 months (brother arrived at 19 months) and 2.5 he was beyond revolting. Then recently he started to improve. Tantrums were far less common and he could be rationalised with. But at the same time, younger brother decided at 14 months that he liked his independence and shows it whenever he bloodywell can.

DS1 was sick last week (quite badly) and within the space of a week has regressed to an 18 month old again with the same level of tantrums and completely irrational behaviour.

I've kept myself going by saying: it will get better soon, it will get better soon. But having read this, I want to cry. I can't keep having this little sleep for another 2 to 3 years.

And I'm sad to say that my good mothering techniques are seen far less frequently in favour of yelling - which is completly ineffectual and makes me feel crap.

sigh. Am going to have a glass of wine now.

Twoisenoughmum and miljee - thank you for making me feel like I'm doing the right thing . Touch wood it went ok tonight, no tears from him or me, so definitely an improvement. And no shouting either (the neighbours will be relieved). Let's see if it lasts through the night...

Joshandjamie, you deserve that wine. Illness is such a bugger for causing sleep disruption. Keep telling yourself that 'it's a phase', honestly it will get better. It sounds like there's been lots of change, hopefully things will settle down [fingers crossed emoticon].